“Chicago sucks” comments 2008

Raga6 Says:
February 22, 2008 at 10:43 am edit
Move to Texas!!!!!
DarcsFalcon Says:
February 22, 2008 at 3:50 pm edit
I’ve been through the pan-handle. The people were so nice, and friendly. It seemed like a nice place to live. )
darcknyt Says:
February 23, 2008 at 11:16 am edit
Anywhere. But. Here.
Please, God. Please.
Andrew Says:
March 3, 2008 at 10:45 pm edit
Chicago has its faults and problems, and it’s not perfect (what place is?), but I know a great many people who like it here, and many of them have lived in plenty of other places.
If you really hate it here, you should do whatever it takes to find someplace else you like and relocate there. Life’s too short to waste it in a place you hate. Why be unhappy?
(BTW, if you think $1000 a month is too much to pay for a decent apartment, you don’t want to move to NYC. Or Boston. Or San Francisco.)
DarcKnyt Says:
March 3, 2008 at 11:20 pm edit
Andrew – We’ve tried relocating. Many times. We have experiences with places like San Francisco, Boston and NYC. We know the costs of those places, though in truth we’d take two of the three over this one any day. (Not NYC, though. No.)
We don’t think $1000/mo. for an apartment is too much. We also don’t think that $1000/mo. buys here what it does in a lot of other places we’ve looked into. A LOT of other places. We definitely agree with you about leaving and we will as soon as it’s possible, because you’re absolutely right: why be unhappy?
On the other hand, we aren’t able to simply snap our fingers and be somewhere better. Like I said, we’ve tried. Like you, we know a lot of people that like it “here” just fine. Great — they can have it. For us, it’s LONG overdue time to go, and we will go when it’s possible.
Until then, we have to make due with hating it.
DarcsFalcon Says:
March 3, 2008 at 11:35 pm edit
Andrew – Moving? Why, what a novel concept! I wish I’d thought of it! Seriously though, do you really think I haven’t tried to find a way to get out? Do you think I’d still be here if I had the means to leave?
Certainly no place is perfect. Absolutely many people like living here. They are entitled to their opinion – as am I. I also know that many people agree with me.
I have lived in SF, and NYC, and have known people in Boston. I know how expensive they are. Unfortunately, I didn’t get a vote about living in Chicago. Also unfortunately, I don’t have the ability to beam myself to another place. When I am able to, believe me, I won’t let the door hit me in the ass on my way out.
In the meantime, since it’s still a free country, I enjoy my right to make fun of the place I didn’t get a choice about living in.
But maybe – since it seems to bother you that I don’t like it here – could I convince you to pay my moving expenses? ;)
No hard feelings dude, and thanks for stopping by. )
Raga6 Says:
March 4, 2008 at 3:40 pm edit
LMAO. Andrew give my friends here some money and I will happily move them to Texas. They’re ready when you are.
Snicker Says:
March 5, 2008 at 8:44 am edit
HA! ‘Andrew’ as he would have you believe his name truly is, is a former Clevelander who got relocated to Chicago by the phone company he worked for, then subsequently downsized. He got a nice severance and now lives, trapped in a tiny apartment, in a ghetto area of Chicago. I only know this because his sole reason for being anymore is to go back to the cleveland websites and bash his old home town, and present his Chicago lifestyle as that which we all should strive for.
I imagine most Chicagoans are fairly nice people, just trying to get through the day like everyone else. ‘Andrew’ is the guy that’s obnoxiously representing your city in other parts of the world.
So there you have it…the ‘obnoxious Chicagoan’ isn’t even really from Chicago.
DarcsFalcon Says:
March 5, 2008 at 4:15 pm edit
Snicker – LOL Yeah, I got that he came here from Cleveland. It’s funny though that he apparently wants to bash his old home town, and then suggest to me that I stop doing the same. Which is funny because I wasn’t born and raised here either.
Many Chicagoans are nice people, no question. And I don’t have an issue with the people here so much as the policies, and the weather. We all want to make where we live a better place, and if calling attention to its faults does that, then it’s all to the good.
I had no choice about moving here, so I don’t have the “native” viewpoint that gets defensive about its home turf. I can see a lot of things perhaps that those born here can’t, which is why the original Forbes.com article caught my attention. I just wanted to play with it, and it seemed to take off, and I found a lot of other people seem to think Chicago sucks too, if the searches on my blog are any indication!
I’m glad you stopped by though, to provide a little insight. ) Andrew’s entitled to his opinion, which he is more than free to express on his blog – just as I will on mine. ;)
I hope to see you again. )
Scott Says:
March 19, 2008 at 12:03 am edit
So I came to Chicago for Graduate School and I have to say that I really dislike this city. I have lived in Louisville, San Diego, Seattle, and most recently San Francisco, so I have some experience of other cities.
The CTA sucks! I depend on the red line from the north side to get downtown to school, and it has been under construction since I got here. It seem to be doing better when it was in the news for needed funding and once the governor passed a tax hike for funding, the red line went back to being very slow. The buses are ridiculous, they show up three at a time after waiting 45 minutes in the cold and the drivers act put out. I have used buses in every city I have lived in these drivers have the worst attitudes.
I know there is nothing that can be done about the winter, but the last two have sucked!
The city calls itself a green city but dying a river green to attract drunken suburbanites is really what the green is about. Having a few green roofs is not being green. It has a lousy blue bag recycling program that just does not work. Recycling has been worked out in a lot of major cities for over a decade now, what is the problem with Chicago? This city has so many back yards, that everyone should be provided with compost bins. I think the mayor likes to say Chicago is a green city but it’s just political posturing.
I have NOT found people to be friendly. I have seen a lot of passive aggressive behavior and total lack of interest in the well being of others. The whole nice mid western thing is a myth.
The city lacks culture that most metropolitan areas have. Sorry but The Taste of Chicago is just a celebration of carnival food and might be a reason that there is a large obese population here. I have had some decent meals in Chicago and even found some decent Sushi but the Taste of Chicago seems to cater to those who prefer corn dogs and deep fried twinkies. And the last thing about food, there is a Dunken Donuts on every corner. Again, it only makes sense that this city has an obesity problem, although I think Houston might be worse but do you really want to be compared to a city in Texas.
I think this city has potential but it might be the whole practical mid wester values things that will keep it from being a truly cosmopolitan city. I know NYC, LA, and San Francisco are expensive but what you get in return with weather or culture makes the smaller space with higher rent worth it.
This city is also very socially conservative but I know it’s hard to compare to the west coast. I do think there is a lot of corruption in the government here and people just allow it to happen. There is a total lack of people standing up for what they believe in and calling out the politicians on their bullshit corruption. I also see a lack of social activism. The gay pride parade is contained in the gay ghetto with religious nuts spewing hate. I know this happens in other cities but I have seen these people called out on their shit. Maybe the attitude is that they are not worth the effort but I don’t see anyone confronting them in an educated manner pointing out hypocrisies.
So I will be leaving Chicago this summer probably never to return for a visit. I have convinced a few friends that live here to move west and everyone I know from school are moving elsewhere because they see similar problems with this city and find it uninspiring to set up residence and make it their home.
So on the positive side. The lake front is nice in the summer, I will give it that.
DarcsFalcon Says:
March 19, 2008 at 2:16 am edit
Scott – you sound like a man with passion. I have heard nothing positive, in decades, about Chicago’s public transportation problems. As for the “green” thing – while I can’t claim to be an environmentalist, I really don’t care for the hypocrisy that seems to ooze out of the city on this issue. If you’re not “green” then fine, just say so, but stop the political posturing. And no, the people here don’t seem to be friendly at all, do they? People look at you cross-eyed if you smile a greeting and say, “Have a nice day!” ROFL about the Taste – I was at the very first one, and have never returned. Oooh, how fun it is to walk around the city during the hottest period of the summer, around all kinds of little booths with ovens! Not. And I’m not sure Chicago knows what culture means. Who needs culture when you have the top of the Sears Tower? Not sure what to tell you on the gay pride parade thing. Never been near one, never plan to, not gay.
You have a point on the lakefront thing. I’ve been to North Ave. Beach – yeah, years ago – but it was nice. But the lake is not an ocean. One thing I do like about the city is some of their older buildings. Some of the architecture is beautiful. I envy you and your friends leaving. You have no idea how much I wish I could too.
Good luck in the rest of your studies, and thanks for stopping by. )
ew keane Says:
March 28, 2008 at 11:34 pm edit
I live in michigan city. we call people from chicago fips. i have been to chicago a couple of times. it is big and dirty. my car got towed and cost me 120 bucks to get it back. the place that I used to work at was bought by a bunch of chicago fips. they threw me out. the great folks I used to work with are being hassled, and will most likely be out of work soon. its not too hard to figure out who is from shitcago when one is forced to engage in a conversation with one. I cant wait for the day when the chinese drop a nuke on shitcago. I wont be the only one to dance and sing when the mushroom cloud sprouts over that evil blight on lake michigan.
DarcsFalcon Says:
March 29, 2008 at 2:46 pm edit
That’s for stopping by, keane. ) I’m curious, what’s a fip exactly and why do you call Chicagoans that? I’ve never heard that term.
I hate the place too, although I can’t say I hope anyone nukes it. I just want to leave, but not see anyone die. My hatred doesn’t extend quite that far!
ChicagoHater Says:
March 30, 2008 at 7:47 am edit
I just spent 10 of the most miserable months of my life in Chicago, and if I ever have to go back there again it’ll be too soon. The weather is 100 percent crap. Miserable. Horrible. Awful.
The city government is a corrupt quagmire. Tens of thousands of wasteful city jobs are added to the payroll every year. How do they pay for it? Just raise taxes again! As of March 2008, Chicago has the highest taxes of any city in the US. And why? So we can pay for traffic enforcement officers who literally stand in the middle of every major intersection and direct traffic… even though there’s already a traffic light that does the same thing.
Sorry, Chicagoans. I know there are a lot of good people in the windy city. But your town is truly detestable.
Sherri Cornelius Says:
March 30, 2008 at 8:42 am edit
That settles it. I am never moving there. I might visit, but hopefully you’ll be out of there by the time I get the means. )
DarcsFalcon Says:
March 31, 2008 at 12:39 am edit
ChicagoHater – I know how you feel, and envy you having only spent 10 months here. What you’ve said is absolutely true, about the jobs and taxes. Sure, there are a lot of nice people in Chicago, and I don’t wish them ill. I’m just sick of all the bullshit that goes on in the city and surrounding suburbs. And the weather sucks.
Thanks for stopping by, Hater, I hope you come back! To my blog, not Chicago! D
DarcsFalcon Says:
March 31, 2008 at 12:43 am edit
Berrykins – nope, you’ll never move here. ) I had to laugh, I hope you don’t visit after I’m gone, lol. (Please God tell me I’ll be gone from here one day soon! And by that I don’t mean dead!) There are some interesting architectural things in the city you might like, and of course, the tallest building in the US, but I’m not sure they’d be worth a trip in and of themselves. Don’t come for the weather, or the food, or the scenery … just come for the friends. )
Love and hugs hon!
leavingchitown Says:
April 8, 2008 at 11:11 am edit
Good post, and good comments. I concur with these and expected to see some people that liked it … I guess not.
I have been here about 3 years now… and well, have had well over enough and will be leaving before the next winter comes and my lease ends, going back to Florida.
The jobs here are a *tad* higher salary wise (5% tops), but not really, I factored in state taxes and cost of living and it is actually significantly lower! Imagine that.
I had visited Chicago in the past and did admit I liked the visits, there are about 2 months out of the year where the weather is gorgeous… but, the other 10 SUCK. I swear it is hotter and more humid than Florida ever was in the summer. I have also lived in other climates, and countries… and the weather here is the WORST…
As far as green city, it is definitely not green. You have to PAY for the blue bags now, this city is just plain dirty! Michigan ave and the lake are okay… the tourist areas. but living here? PLEASE. It is dirty with the worst roads I have ever experienced in my life.
Cost of living is DEFINITELY higher, groceries, oil, taxes, insurance, everything! Chicago will soon, if not already have the highest sales tax in the country.
I’m not really sure about the culture here either… people in southeast or west coast are definitely friendlier as well. Yes there are good institutions, yes there is good architecture. Not sure about culture though, it seems like a bunch of sheep to me! Like suburbs moved to the city.
So as far as Chicago goes, visit in late May or June, but I wouldn’t advise anybody moving here unless they are apathetic and materialistic. Besides that the city just doesn’t have much to offer I’m afraid, esp in the shit weather.
Out of the 10 cities as most miserable by Forbes, Chicago had weather index of 122, one point behind Flint Michigan, nothing else was close.
Most people I know here are either moving, not staying here, or would like to move if they could. There are a few newcomers or transients or just haven’t lived anywhere else or family is here that stay.
DarcsFalcon Says:
April 9, 2008 at 9:28 pm edit
LeavingChiTown – I love your name! You make me jealous, and I wish I was leaving too. Thank you for your nice comments. )
All the things you said are true. Chicago IS dirty and the roads are some of the worst I’ve seen in the country – and I’ve driven over a huge portion of it. I once took a picture of the road across the state line bordering WI, because the difference was visible. Good road on the WI side, terrible on the IL side.
And yep on the taxes. Chicago recently passed new tax laws, which will raise them to the highest level in the country, double digits. They will begin in the fall I believe.
There are so many things wrong with the place, and part of me doesn’t understand the apathy that simply allows it to continue, to keep electing the same officials who keep maintaining the status quo. It’s like no one cares that it’s so terrible here. Maybe they just don’t know better. Perhaps they don’t care. Either way, when my turn comes, I will be like you, and leaving Chicago forever, with nary a glance back.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting! And good luck in FL!
J.R. Says:
April 23, 2008 at 2:18 pm edit
http://chicagowithdrawal.blogspot.com/ I’m just following up to anyone reading this. Your post is so popular Darcsfalcon because Chicago is one of the darkest cities of this country that people literally type “chicago sucks” into google to find like minded people. The thing is that natives either don’t know or mask the problem when someone says something other than, “What an awesome place!” The people who have lived in happy, joyful and functioning areas of the country are perplexed, the people who are raised here suffer through it so much they don’t know what society is capable of. i devoted a blog because i lived in the city and suburbs for my whole life until finally getting the hell out of there recently.
JoJo Says:
April 25, 2008 at 8:32 pm edit
Chicago absolutely blows. Im getting the %$#* out as soon as my lease is up.
franktown Says:
May 7, 2008 at 1:17 pm edit
Wow, I’m assuming anybody that comes on this website to defend Chicago will be called “closed minded”, “socially conservative”, and “fat”.
You’re entitled to your opinion, but I’d at least expect good arguments for a Chicago hater (just as I’d expect good arguments from all the annoying New York City haters out there, don’t even get me started with them!).
Yeah, the CTA system and the government corruption can use some work, but if you think Chicago is one of the few cities that suffer from those problems, good luck in San Francisco, Phoenix, Atlanta, or Houston! The latter three cities that I mentioned have non-existent public transportation systems, and you ruling NYC out as another option to move to other than Chicago doesn’t give you many options (You can try D.C, but it sounds like you’re a “liberal, west coaster”)
Lack of culture here? It depends on how often you leave your living room and go out with friends? Got any? It helps! You can find endless things to do at any time of the year (especially the summer) all over the city. Clubbing, restaurants, bars, I’m having a blast down here! And I used to live in LA, Seattle, and Miami (all fantastic cities by the way).
And with regards to the friendliness of the city, Chicago is well known by many to be one of the friendliest big cities in the country. The drivers are aggressive yes, but you’ll never escape that in any big city, especially San Francisco, New York, or LA.
There are tons of unfriendly people here, yes, but it’s not the kind of city where you’d receive awkward glances by everyone for simply saying “hello!”
Socially conservative (I’m responding to other arguments above me as well)? Well, there are plenty here, but aren’t us liberals supposed to be excepting and open minded? I sense a little hypocrisy in some of you. People in Chicago are more socially liberal and economically conservative. Have you seen the gay pride parade that attracts thousands of people each year in Lakeview? You guys probably don’t even know where Lakeview is, hence your claim that Chicago is lacking “culture”.
Here is link (one of many) that I found saying that Chicago has some of the most bars per capita out of any US city. Again, guys and gals, there’s tons to do here! Make something of what you have instead of whining like babies all the time and hoping that grass will be greener on the other side!
Speaking of links, do you have any quality ones that can back up your claim on the CTA, September 11, and the asthma. What about the Alaska claim? According to Weather.com, Chicago’s average in January is nearly 11 degrees warmer than Anchorage’s. The summers are humid, but have you been to the sunbelt? Or the desert southwest? or New York City? I am not bashing any of these mentioned areas, only stating that you are never going to live in an area with perfect weather.
I don’t know how I stumbled upon this miserable excuse for an essay/blog, but I am really beginning to regret since I had to waste ten minutes of my time writing a counter argument that most likely will be lambasted by the previous 21 posters who have been kissing your ass since you first wrote the blog.
I’m sure, once you move, I’ll be hearing another blog about a fantastic city (New York, Los Angeles, Houston, San Francisco, Miami, Washing DC, Boston, Philly, etc.), and how it lacks “culture”, “friendliness”, and “sincerity”, when you’re probably the biggest jerk to ever step foot in Chicago.
shitcagoan Says:
May 8, 2008 at 5:15 am edit
I was reading through and I agree with evertything anti-chicago that i have seen so far. My girlfriend and i moved here from Austin. Yup thats right. From one in the top 10 to one in the bottom 10. The part that gets me most about this poo hole is the boasting of the friendly people and the great food.
So maybe they aren’t mean, but most of them don’t seem to know how to be polite, or respectful. They all think that they know more about everthing than everyone else! And seriously, do you need to use the F-bomb for every third word?
The food that is so amazing……..may be non exhistant. I have given up trying new places, because it’s constantly a let down. I think the overwieght obnoxious speaking locals are talking about how good the bar food is.
My girlfriend and I are finally leaving in late August! We are going to check out clearwater, fl. wish us luck …. and the best of luck to all of you not liking it in this stye! Get out!
ps if i made a list of things i didn’t like about chicago, i would have to miss a few days of work so i just jotted down the two that were bugging me today.
ps are they all alcoholics?
shitcagoan Says:
May 8, 2008 at 5:25 am edit
sorry about the back to back comments but i just read “franktown” comments on culture. Dude, the gay pride parade. Culture huh? I am far from anti gay, but the parade is just another excuse for people to get wasted in the streets.
What, no baseball game to not watch and get hammered at? Oh no, it’s not st pattys day (2 parades to get drunk at for that one). What will we do???? Oh ya, we’ll go to one of the thousands of bars and still get ridiculously DRUNK!
So, where is this culture thing you are talking about, or were you drunk when you wrote your response?
franktown Says:
May 8, 2008 at 1:17 pm edit
Well, It’s clear that I now know why people seem to hate Chicago.
Because we know how to have a good time (I’m sorry if watching baseball or football over a polish sausage and a beer and then going to the bars to get hammered isn’t your idea of a good time).
I don’t need to say anything else. You like cookie cutter perfect neighborhoods? You might as well move anywhere out of the Midwest, because you’re probably the a-hole that’s been filing noise complaints down the street.
Austin, huh? Great city! How much of a low life are you that you don’t know that 6th street basically turns into Mardi Gras after 2 am when the bars close. I had a blast bar happing in that city, although Chicago has loads more to offer simply because it has everything on a bigger scale (great city). I also loved Austin’s Tex-Mex and pure Mexican food. Delicious!
I feel sorry that Tampa is going to have to deal with your BS. I suggest moving to Sarasota, where the population over 75+ is booming, and you and your girlfriend can spend a Saturday evening playing a good game of checkers or bingo with your grandparents.
They’re lucky to have you. And I’m done. Buh-bye!
DarcsFalcon Says:
May 9, 2008 at 7:12 pm edit
Franktown – You deserve some special attention from me, I’m thinking. ;)
First of all, I think you’ve made some assumptions about me that simply aren’t warranted. Me? Accuse someone of being socially conservative? Not unless I was heaping praise from the bottom of my Republican heart. You’ve presumed me a liberal and I can assure you, nothing could be further from the truth. And I would never call someone close-minded just for disagreeing with me. As I pointed out at the top of my Anti-Chicago page, it’s intended as a place for like-minded people to vent their frustrations. We already KNOW there are people such as yourself who love Chicago and can think of no better place to live, and we don’t have a problem with that. Believe me, we’ve lived next door to you for years, and are frankly a bit tired of being made to feel that we aren’t entitled to our opinion. It’s part of our frustration. Chicago is NOT the friendly city it likes to claim to be, and I HAVE gotten sour looks and rude gestures simply for nodding “hello” to passersby. For the record, we shouldn’t HAVE to file noise complaints either – our neighbors shouldn’t be so rude to blast their music at all hours of the night. Personally, I think only other “true Chicagoans” find Chicago to be a friendly city. Why would anyone come here to defend Chicago? I stated at the top of my Anti-Chicago page that if anyone came here to argue with me, not to bother because it wouldn’t alter anything I’ve experienced. There’s lots of “Love Chicago” sites, or you can start your own. You read that part, right?
Please Franktown, clubbing and the Gay Pride parade are not culture. You don’t honestly believe that, do you? Not everyone in Chicagoland wants to do the club scene, bar hop, and eat sausage. It is precisely that attitude that something’s wrong with us if we don’t like those things that make it frustrating to live here. Besides, the club scene isn’t really the kind of place to go with your kids either.
Yeah, one year I tracked the temps daily between Anchorage and Chicago. Chicago was always colder. As for averages, I don’t think a 10° difference in average temps, when both temps are below freezing is that big a difference. Perhaps you don’t have anyone you love who has to cope with asthma that causes you to discover the statistics on that. According to http://www.lungchicago.org The asthma hospitalization rate in Chicago is nearly double the national average. As for the news stuff during 911, I guess you had to be here. You may have been living in LA, Seattle, or Miami during that time. The CTA? Were you here in Dec of last year during the “crisis”? Don’t you know about the tax bailout the CTA received from the city? And I don’t think that bragging that other city’s faults are just as bad as Chicago’s is really bragging, either, you know? Like I’ve never lived anywhere else. It’s amusing really – the people who most try to convince me how wonderful Chicago is are people who’ve recently moved here, and don’t seem to realize that I’ve been here for over 30 years and seen a lot that’s gone on.
There is more to life than bar-hopping, but sadly, there doesn’t seem to be anything else to do in Chicago. I certainly find it sad that Chicago has the most bars per capita than other major US cities. It’s not something to brag about. How many bars does 1 city need, exactly? No wonder the drunk-driving statistics around here are so terrible!
I know how you stumbled upon my miserable excuse for a blog, Franktown. You probably put “Chicago sucks” into a search engine and found it – that’s how everyone else does, and those are the search terms that showed up on my blog stats. No one forced you to read. No one made you waste 10 minutes of your time. You chose to do that. If you regret it then that’s on you.
It’s funny, Franktown, you tell me I have no valid arguments, but then you agree with me on the CTA system, government corruption, the “tons of unfriendly people,” the humid summers, and aggressive drivers. And you call me a hypocrite?
No other opinion but “The Chicago Way” is tolerated here, and that only proves how intolerant Chicago really is. Tolerance? Try being a Republican in Chicago. No one is as intolerant of us as “the tolerant liberals,” of which you claim to be. You call yourself open-minded, yet I find it ironic that you are not tolerant of my disagreement with you regarding Chicago. I didn’t seek you out, you sought me, and decided to argue with me despite my opening request that you not do so. I don’t go to Chicago lover’s pages and read them the riot act. And despite your claim of “Chicago friendliness,” Franktown, you’re the one who resorted to name-calling, not me.
But thanks for stopping by anyway and I hope you’ll be very happy in Chicago. )
franktown Says:
May 9, 2008 at 10:13 pm edit
Ehhhh, whatever.
I do find that you’re entitled to an opinion, and btw, I am NOT that much of a liberal as I claimed to be above.
It’s not that I’m not tolerating your viewpoint by arguing with you, I’m simply defending the city I’ve been living in for quite a long time now (despite the fact that I’ve been moving all over the country).
There are PLENTY of other things to do in Chicago other than bar hop and clubbing.
Family wise, go to a broadway show downtown or try an off broadway production (adult or kid friendly material) scattered around the city. Go to the lake either in the city or on the north shore. Go to The Field Museum, Art Museum, Museum of Science and Industry, or the Planetarium. Climb the Tower downtown. Go to a farmers market, a political rally, or a coffeehouse. Go to an art show (there are TONS all over the city).
I’m simply stating that you can find what you want in Chicago if you try hard (you can’t find mountains, though).
I was not insulting you for not liking bar hopping, but if that’s not your thing, there are infinite other things to do around the city or in the suburbs. Open an edition of the Red Eye (if it’s still published) and that’ll prove my point.
I’m sorry, but yes, you will find these same problems in other cities.
I just think that you are acting very pessimistic and you won’t be happy in your other city you move to based on how you’ve judged Chicago.
I also never called YOU a name, I called shitcagoan a name for judging me.
I guess that settles that. I suggest you pursue your happiness and leave the city. Life is short and you should be somewhere that makes you happy.
shitcagoan Says:
May 11, 2008 at 4:54 am edit
looking back i feel bad for being so arrogant. I became what i was bitching about while I was bitching.
I like going to bars, occasionally even going too far. What bugs me is that seems to be the number one past time around here.
And please Ftown, having A beer at a baseball game? I live within earshot of wrigley, and there isn’t alot of sanity around here during baseball season.
I didn’t mean to attack you Ftown, at least not enough to make you think I’m an A hole and i am loaded with BS for Floridians.
I have been happy EVERYWHERE else that I have lived. Fortunalely for us, we only had to come up here for a two year project. It’s just that somedays my dislike for this city gets to me and I get very negative.
DarcsFalcon, thanks for giving me/us a place to vent my feelings when the chicago life gets rough. I’m sure you’ll hear more from me.
DarcsFalcon Says:
May 11, 2008 at 4:40 pm edit
JoJo – I hope you find happiness and success wherever you end up! And thanks for stopping by! )
DarcsFalcon Says:
May 12, 2008 at 11:15 am edit
Shitcagoan – I wanted to give you some special attention too, since you’ve visited here a few times while I was gone. Please know you’re always welcome here and I thank you for stopping by. )
At least you are here for just 2 years. I’ve been here 30 so far, and if I could have gotten away after just 2, my life would have been totally different.
I agree with you completely on the food thing. I heard such great things about Chicago food, but I’ve yet to find it. Like you, I’ve given up trying. The best food I’ve found around here wasn’t in the city, but way way out in the far west ‘burbs, and one tiny little diner down in Reagan’s birthplace (can’t recall the name of the city) that no longer exists. I’ve had decent food, but it wasn’t pizza and it wasn’t hot dogs. I can’t stand the “Chicago version” of either of those.
Are they all alcoholics? LOL Seems that way sometimes, doesn’t it? Chicagoans love their beer, that’s for sure! I doubt they’re alcoholics, but maybe the drinking numbs the pain of living here. Perhaps I should give it a try? ;)
Thanks for the FL invite! I would love to take you up on it! Honestly though, I do wish you and your gf every success there. I’ve heard it’s humid and rains a lot, so be sure to take your umbrella. That’s one of the 22 of the lower 48 I’ve not been to. Four more months dude, then you’re out. You have no idea how I envy you!
I understand the level of frustration and dislike, and how it can get to you sometimes. You just want to scream, “Why don’t you people DO something about all the things that need fixing?!” I know. People complain about taxes and still vote in the people who raised the taxes. They complain about the Democratic Machine of Chicago, and still vote Democrat. They have so much power with their dollars and their votes, and they won’t use them to change things. If you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.
I’m glad you stopped by Shitcagoan. As I said in the beginning, you’re always welcome here. This is a place to vent, where you won’t get the hostile stares or raised brows just for feeling the way you do. Not from me anyway. I wish you Godspeed on your journey, and all success. )
DarcsFalcon Says:
May 14, 2008 at 10:56 pm edit
JR – Yes, I get multiple daily searches for “Chicago sucks” on my blog. I always felt pretty alone in my thoughts, until I saw how many people were looking at the same things I was, and coming to the same conclusions. I don’t know if the “natives” are just in denial or if they truly believe the rhetoric they spew, but there are many others of us who know that this place is not as great as it cracked itself up to be.
Your blog is cool – don’t stop. )
DarcsFalcon Says:
May 15, 2008 at 12:11 am edit
Franktown – I’m glad you came back. )
I never said there wasn’t anything to do in Chicago. That wasn’t one of my complaints in my original post. Certainly, most major metros try to have things to do for its residents. Personally, I’m not that concerned with those things as I don’t live in the city and getting down there is too much trouble and too expensive for my efforts. So, meh. I think it may have been one of the commentors who referred to that.
My complaints have been with taxation and unemployment, the incredibly high cost of living around here, the apathy of the people to change the way the city “works,” the attitude of so many people here.
I can find what I want if I just “look hard enough?” Franktown, I’m sure you mean well, but let me be blunt: after being here 30 years, what makes you think I haven’t? It’s a little insulting for you to imply I haven’t. Can I change the weather? Can I change the tax rate? Can I change unemployment? Can I change the politics? (Believe me I’ve tried!) My desire is to be around like-minded people, and here, I’m just a fish out of water. I don’t belong here. Chicago never welcomed me, no matter how hard I tried to fit in. I wasn’t allowed in the “clique.” When I got here I was greeted with condescension and arrogance, and nothing’s changed since. Unfortunately, I can’t just magically transport myself to where I want to be either, so I’m stuck with struggling in a place that doesn’t want me.
No offense Franktown, but you don’t know me well enough to know whether or not I’d be happy some place else. You’ve not walked a step in my shoes, let alone a mile, to know whether I’m just being pessimistic. I have no problem that some people seem to love it here. I leave it to them, gladly. I’m happy for them that they’ve found a place they want to be. Honest. I just want the same for myself. And Chicago doesn’t need you to defend it. After being here so long, please don’t think I haven’t heard it all, all the praise that people want to heap on this place. It’s because I’ve been here so long I feel I have the right to vent, more than folks who’ve just come for a visit, or only lived here a short time. For me, this place is a prison – I can’t get out, no matter how hard I try. But I’ll keep trying, because “home” calls me.
No hard feelings Franktown, none at all. And honestly, my criticism of Chicago won’t hurt it in the least. Chicago and it’s denizens couldn’t care less about me, or what I think of it.
The M6: The Road To Hell « Pink Sunshine Says:
June 10, 2008 at 3:58 pm edit
[…] 10, 2008 by pinksunshine Partly inspired by DarcsFalcon’s Why I Think Chicago Sucks (although I really like Chicago!) and partly by the fact that some idiot lorry driver almost […]
SD Says:
June 16, 2008 at 3:46 pm edit
Everything here sucks:
Public transportations system – five EL lines going to Downtown and nothing to interconnect the outskirts plus very slooooow… Buses that add to already bad congestion.
Roads? Traffic is bad most of time, people here do not know how to drive in big city i.e. keep up with the traffic (no five car-lengths gaps), signal when changing lanes, use all available lanes, do not block others etc. etc.
Culture? What culture? Broadway reruns? Five theaters in a two million city? Lola ? :))
Chicago sports? Two teams that win the championships every hundred years plus “da Bears” that haven’t won since 1960’s..
Chicago food? How many hot-dogs you can eat in your lifetime? Chicago food is greasy and in large quantities – just look around and realize how many obese individuals are walking these streets. No. Big chain restaurants do not count as attractions.
Journalism: There is no major magazine published in Chicago besides Playboy. Both Chicago dailies are epitomes of bad journalism: parochial, isolationist, servile. Plain boring. No great names.
Chicago politics? Which other city would allow the mayor to run eight consecutive terms? Only a city where NOBODY decent wants to be a mayor. Governor after governor goes to jail. Corruption capital of the US. The highest gas prices in the country. On of the highest property taxes in the country. The highest foreclosure rate in the country. Does this all add up? Eight terms in the office. Keep it up Chicago!
Conclusion: Chicago suffers from the Midwestern “never complain and learn to like what you have” mentality. It sounds good on paper but in reality nobody complains so nothing ever get fixed or improved. Squeaky wheel gets the grease? Not in Chicago. Instead Chicagoans are “tough” so they actually learn to like the rusted bridge in the middle of town (the EL), terrible potholes and high taxes. Nobody complains so nothing ever changes. Chicago reward complacency and mediocrity. You can see the effect yourself.
On top of that Chicagoans act like they all have this big inferiority complex masquerading as superiotiy complex ) “Of course Chicago has the best sports, education, food and culture”. Where else could it be if not the middle of the prairie ) Point of reference? Bismarck ND?
Chicagoans are so rude. Do not expect someone to hold the door for you or to hear “I am sorry” if someone steps on your foot on the train. New York is rude? Try Chicago.
Terrible place… Avoid at all cost.
PS. Why am I here? Because I do not have the choice, do not tell me to move out ’cause I can’t.
DarcsFalcon Says:
June 16, 2008 at 6:46 pm edit
SD – Thanks for stopping by! I know just how you feel! And I am only, sadly, too familiar with being unable to leave, myself. It is the bane of my existence. So any time you need to rant, feel free to come on by. )
DarcKnyt Says:
June 17, 2008 at 12:41 pm edit
Hey, SD, we’re in the same boat. Saying “so move if youse don’t like it” isn’t really thoughtful or intelligent. If I could, I would, I don’t like spending my life complaining about living.
But I disagree about Shitcagoans being tough. They may not complain, but I think it’s because they’re too stupid to realize how bad they’re being screwed.
Glad you sounded off. In a city of 2+ million people, at least a few of us have the intellectual capacity to know crap when we see it. )
June 20, 2008 at 9:23 pm edit
Been here 20 years ..
The positives::
Public Transit while it bogs down, still allows you the luxury of not having a car.
Since they overbuilt the city, plenty of rentals available relatively cheap compared to other cities.
Lots of non chain bars and restaraunts off the tourist beaten path and some good cheap food, Mexican- Thai, Woodfire pizza and deep dish (which is a whole other animal).
The negatives:
Weather is only good in June, July and August (especially by the lake) so they jam in a kazillion festivals during those months and then 9 months go by without anything similar.
Since a good portion of the residence are from the Chicagoland area or other areas of the midwest, Chicago is looked at as a panacea, utopia by many who havent traveled elsewhere. They think the food is the greatest in the world, the women are the best looking in the world (please!) and the world ends at Harlem Avenue.
This provinicalism is also noted in there sports teams. If you root for anybody but a Chicago team I’ve been told there’s something wrong with you and the aging decrepit Wrigley field is considered the greatest ballpark in the world.
The dining and bar scene exacerbate the weight problem in this city. There are more overweight people here per capita then I’ve ever seen. Most restaraunts serve huge portions and if you ask for a junior or child size portion you are laughed or scoffed at by waiters and waitresses.
And finally the City has let some great little former urban oasis neighborhoods go junior yuppie, changing the complexion of the city- See Bucktown, Roscoe Village, North Center, Ravenswood, South loop etc.
And as far as Daley being re-elected year after year its shows you the intellect or lack of the populous.
DarcsFalcon Says:
June 21, 2008 at 1:35 pm edit
Pistol Pete – Thanks for stopping by! I got you beat by a decade! I agree with you about Daley – it’s like he’s king or something, and not an elected official. 17 yrs as mayor? Come ON people! Get a Republican in that office! Do something different for a change! I think the weather’s only nice in May and September though, but I must admit, this June has been pretty nice. Usually it’s sweltering by now. You are right about Chicago being viewed as a panacea – it’s like the people have some weird tunnel vision and aren’t even willing to consider the possibility that other cities have great things to offer. If it’s not the Chicago Way, then it’s NO WAY, forget it, we ain’t interested! And I’m not sure about the transit system – I was just reading yesterday how bad it’s getting, Metra needs more cars and can’t afford them. You know what that means – higher rates, longer wait times, more delays. And I know just what you mean about being a fan of a non-Chicago team. I’ve seen Packers fans harrassed, so I don’t often wear my Patriots stuff.
Where were you before you came to Chicago, if you don’t mind me asking? Thanks for dropping in – I hope to see you again. )
June 21, 2008 at 5:20 pm edit
Hi I lived in Boston as well, did 4 years in Kansas City and a year or two in Suburban LA. I have to say that when I came to Chicago it was pretty damn fun. You had great bars, like the Octagon, Neo (still around in some form), Avalon, and the Lakeview, Lincoln Park scene had some good things going for it. It also was kind of neat to go to the “undiscovered areas” at the time- Roscoe Village, Ravenswood, Bucktown etc. What’s happened is the Economy in the midwest has gotten so shitty in the past 10-15 years in places like Detroit, Cleveland, Iowa, etc. is that the city is overrun by 20 somethings right out of big ten schools that used to settle in places like Wrigleyville, Clark and Diversey etc. Due to sheer numbers the young “hipster” element of this crowd has taken over former quite outpusts (forgot to mention Ukranian Village and River West) and now those neighborhoods are supposed hipster hangouts. The thing is when you my age 45 you realize these kids arent’ really hipsters, it’s just a phase or right of passage they are going through and wearing a tatoo and nose ring and hanging out at North and Damen is the thing to do. Sort of like Belmont and Clark 20 years ago. Then on the other hand those that grew up in Chicago tend to be what I call “urban rednecks” they keep to themselves and most think a summer trip to the Dells or the Dunes is about all they can muster up for a vacation . Being able to go to Vegas (for the buffets would be the ultimate conquest). I also find in the retail outlets the black and hispanic products of the Chicago school system are either rude or dont talk to you or look away in a lot of instances. Not sure if this is education or just distrust with white people since the city is considered one of the (if not the) most racially tense large cities in the country. So the bottom line is the city looks great on TV when a sports event is going on, but it’s an unpleasant place to live.
I have to stay hear for about 5-10 more years god help me until I retire and head to the Sun Belt, so all I can do it try to be positive and keep a smile on my face while facing CTA delays and passive employees, 8 months of helacious cold,
SUV’s and cabs not stopping at crosswalks, frowning faces, and being considered a freak since I weigh 145 pounds and stand 5 foot 11 inches and dont live my life around food and booze
DarcKnyt Says:
June 21, 2008 at 9:11 pm edit
Wow, Pistol Pete — you’re 5′ 11″ and 145??? I’m SOOOO jealous! )
June 22, 2008 at 10:05 am edit
Thanks DarcNyt, Maybe its from not bring Mickey D’s double cheezburgers when I’m on the El and depositing it on the seat or floor.
Does anyone ever do that in Chicago?? No way!
DarcsFalcon Says:
June 23, 2008 at 5:56 pm edit
Pitsol Pete – I’d love to hear about Boston. Darc and I feel called to the east coast and are hoping to get there one day. Boston and it’s surroundings are in our top 10 list of places to consider.
I love your use of urban rednecks! It fits so well! And you’re right – there’s a hostility in the city that’s hard to pin down, as well as an apathy I simply will never understand.
And I guess the Dells is nearly gone now for a vacation spot, so wherever will people go? ;)
Thanks for coming back!
Pink Sunshine Says:
June 24, 2008 at 10:32 am edit
Saw this story and thought of you! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7470871.stm
DarcsFalcon Says:
June 24, 2008 at 2:10 pm edit
Pink – ROFLMAO! I saw that a couple days ago in my local online paper. It reminded me of the time I saw a blue jay go after a train for getting too close to its nest. Silly Chicago birds!
DarcKnyt Says:
June 24, 2008 at 3:46 pm edit
Yeah, even the BIRDS here are stupid. The whole place is … well, for the birds. ;)
J.R. Says:
June 24, 2008 at 9:55 pm edit
i agree with Pistol Pete. Chicago is really fun to begin with but here lies the danger and pull of the place. You may have fun for a month or even a year, but then you realize where you are at some point and immediately want to escape.
I lived with the Hipster element. Its like neighborhoods of high school acting people all over again. These people aren’t enlightened or even fun to be around they are boring and pretentious– not all but many.
People are intensely rude there, especially products of the CPS. I worked with someone that had to drop out of high school because it was so ghetto. As far as minorities go, most of them are surprised to see you if you walk through their neighborhood and vice versa, with exception of parts of the north side i guess.
I’ve been back there for like 2 weeks the last half a year and it was about enough. As far as fat people, I think its the capital in the U.S. Good luck living there and staying thin, I told my friend that recently moved there to buy a gym membership right away.
June 25, 2008 at 12:22 am edit
Great point by JR. The whole N.Side from North Ave up to Irving and now West to Western is like a big high school or college campus where bars/porch parties/those Cubbies rule on the frat boy side and then there’s the Wicker hipsters who’ve spread south to the West Loop and Ukranian Village. Sort of the geeks who couldnt play sports but now are cool with there tatood girlfriend in retro pigtails.
As ugly ass as the South Side is (it might as well be Detroit) at least the Urban rednecks , hispanics and blacks are just trying to get by in the city.
Thank goodness for a bar called the Liars Club. It’s my only salvation here!!
DarcsFalcon Says:
June 25, 2008 at 3:48 pm edit
I never got into the bar scene, so what you guys are talking about is unfamiliar to me. And really, if you’re not into a bar scene on some level, what has Chicago got for you?
J.R. Says:
June 26, 2008 at 5:49 pm edit
Chicago is fun too a point where you can drink a lot of beer at one area and end up in a different part of the city, you havent discovered. Although, in the last 20 years the city has mainly become just a giant ghetto and sterile shopping mall.
The areas Pistol Pete is talking about are havens for what is a recently coined term steming from the beat/hippie generation of the 60s. The “hipster” is what it is called in modern times, there is a book called “the hipster handbook” if you would like to know more about it. Basically most of them are pretend hippies/ pseudo beatniks and they act pretentious. Many of them flock to Chicago as North and Damen is one of the main centers of “hipster” culture in the United States. Although these areas, are becoming too expensive so they are forced to live elsewhere and only “pretend” hipsters remain that have regular 9-5 jobs that automatically disqualify them from being a hipster. They ride one speed bikes, dress, in tight clothes and wear ironic t-shirts. Many of them aim at living the “bohemian” lifestyle.
The area I lived in was an enclave of these people. I thought that they had something they were rebelling against at first and they at least partied hard or were fun to be around- after living around/with these people for about a year, I realized that they are none of these things. I realized how much I liked capitalism and wanted to have a 9-5 job and did not want to be poor. These people are among the biggest hypocrites American society has ever produced. The 60s were rebelling against Vietnam, hipsters today rebel against the suburbs they are from and making money. Hipsters hate money, while living off their parents or leaching off of others like me, as one of my roommates did. I can honestly say its like a giant High school, not even to the level of college with their closed minded, supposedly opened minded mentality.
As big is Chicago is and as much as I hate to say it, besides being wasted and my family there, it has nothing to offer me. I’m too smart for getting drunk all the time and living with the array of hypocrites in the metropolitan area.
June 28, 2008 at 8:31 pm edit
Good point on the North and Damen 20 something (or sadly early 30’s) “hipster scene”. Most of these kids are from rich suburbs of Chicago, Detroit (a city that apparently sucks even worse than Chicago due to the auto industry obsession) or other midwest outposts. Bucktown started as a good idea, but like a good portion of Chicago’s “hip neighborhoods” became the sterile mall atmosphere the kids came from. Hence, sportsbars have sprung up as well as standard retail. J.R is correct. These kids arent’ beatniks, hippies, or stand for anything. There spoiled little rich brats who went to Big Ten or expensive private college. Anyway,it’s only one aspect of what drives me nuts about Chicago. Happy to be heading out of town for the 4th of Julyweekend
DarcsFalcon Says:
June 29, 2008 at 3:00 am edit
PistolPete – Oh lucky you, getting to go away for a fun holiday weekend! I hope you have a blast! Let us know what you did when you get back, ok? I’d love to hear about your mini-vacation. )
J.R. Says:
June 30, 2008 at 6:59 am edit
Pistol Pete– I left college for a while to move there and I figured out the hard way the hypocrisies of Chicago. Hipsters being one. Politicians in that city are the worst hypocrites, expecting you to use the shitty transit while they drive their limos everywhere.
I think its the scale of Chicago that sets it apart from other shitty cities and places. Cincinnati has its bad parts as every city, but the size and dilapidation of Chicago physically and mentally is enough to make you to want to run far away.
I know I can work for the family business if I go back there, but I know I’ll be miserable. I am actively trying to stay in Cincinnati after college.
JG Says:
June 30, 2008 at 7:37 pm edit
I was excited to read this blog because I thought my husband I and were the only ones. We too are stuck here, not by choice, for a few more years and dislike is describing our sentiment nicely. I used to live in San Diego, but drove through and stayed in LA and San Fran. People here in chicago constantly ask me, “isn’t the traffic so bad in LA”? Are you kidding me? It’s not great, but at least I don’t have to fear for my life as some a** hole in a mercedes benz careens past me with no turn signal, or a bus basically runs into the side of me because he hasn’t looked or doesn’t care or has been doing this too long to give a damn. Don’t even get me started on the taxi drivers. I haven’t used much public transit because it isn’t big in SD and I’m not familiar with it, but from the stories I’ve heard, I think I’ll stick to the car. I think I could overlook the potholes that have roads in them, but holy cow, I have not seen a worse created infostructure in my life. Did they set a bunch of toddlers down to draw on a big piece of paper and that’s how they came up with the roads and freeways? I understand that there are way more people here now than back in the day, but our taxes seem to be high enough that we could receive a little more help on the traffic congestion. Or did I just pay for someones fancy dinner?
I agree with most of the comments on culture. If you like to eat bar food and consume mass quantities of alcohol this is the town for you. Chicago likes to party! And hey, if that’s your thing, more power to ya and you’re livin in the right place.
Recycling is ridiculous here. We have had a recycling system in place in san diego for about 20 years plus. And it’s not just a blue bag the garbage men throw in with all of the other waste and tell you it’s been “recycled” come on are we idiots? They come around with a separate truck for all recycling in SD and in a lot of other cities I’ve been too. The parks systems are pretty nice here..gotta give them that. However, whatever is not a park is DIIIIRRRTTYYY. When I first moved here, I thought breathing might be hazardous to my health. I won’t go jogging on the streets anymore because inhaling exhaust isn’t what I want to do while I’m trying to be healthy. The lakefront is nice, but try to get anywhere near it on the weekend! My husband and I love outdoor activities. I used to surf and horseback ride on a daily basis and he loves to bike ride. Now, however to get to a place you won’t be hit by some reckless driver, we have to drive at least 2 hours roundtrip and that’s with absolutely no traffic…which come on, when does that ever happen? 3 am?
Wow and I know this is getting long, but my last gripe is the people. In San Diego, LA, San Fran and even NY I have met friendlier people. Everyone told me when I first moved here, “oh, you’ll LOVE it..the people are so friendly”…what a load of you know what. Big culture shock for me! It was so different to what I was used to in SD that I just figured everyone was mad at me or having a bad day….ALL THE TIME. Most of the fun people I have met are not from chicago originally.
And seriously what is the superiority complex around here? Do your farts not stink? Do you all drive hybrids? I mean I could see if your weather wasn’t sh*t on a stick or something, but c’mon. I can tell you rent is the same in SD as it is here pretty much and houses might be a little pricier, but not much. And hey, if the weather doesn’t make me want to hang myself with a shower curtain, I think I’ll pay a little more.
For all those that love chicago, like in a couple of the posts before, I mean no harm…I’m glad you like it here, cuz when I move out, you won’t follow me and crowd up my new city. I think Chicago has a lot to offer, especially for people who like NYC, but think it’s too big of a hassle. For me, I wasn’t raised here or in NYC – I like things a little more peaceful, a little warmer, a little greener, little less traffic and to get to enjoy the activities I like to do. While I’m here I’m gonna make the most out of it and keep trying new things cuz doom and gloom isn’t my style, but thanks to this blog I could share a few frustrations with like minded individuals and find out that I’m not alone out there lol!
JG Says:
June 30, 2008 at 7:41 pm edit
oh yeah, PS, I forgot one more thing..what’s up with the handgun ban in chicago? So what the gang bangers and criminals can be loaded up to their eyeballs in all sorts of fun weaponry, and I can’t even have a handgun if I wished to defend myself? I’m pretty sure chicago doesn’t have a shortage of criminals – what would it hurt if I popped off a few. I’d pay a $25.00 fine….
J.R. Says:
June 30, 2008 at 9:08 pm edit
JG, this site is like the only place online for people that figure out Chicago sucks (besides mine now). It seems to me that most of the people on here are from somewhere else and eventually just disgusted when they stay in Chicago for any length of time. Personally, I’ll never live in Cook County again. It is seriously run by the mob/ naive socialists. Now maybe socialism works in Denmark, but this is Chicago and the majority of the people are idiots.
I’m from here, and I feel like my blog is blasphemy towards people I know. But like I said before, it needs to be said.
The handgun ban was put in place by the mob; I think I show evidence in one of my “violence” posts. IT was instated in the 80s by a mob alderman.
After careful examination, its the hypocrisy of Chicago that is just the most irritating. I can give a million examples: Hipsters as in the previous posts, A mayor that has armed body guards and tells everyone they can’t have a gun. A governor who doesn’t live in the Capital, instead in some shitty Polish NW. neighborhood. People that tell you to use transit, while driving their fat asses everywhere. Intolerant democrats that are supposedly “tolerant.” as darc I believe said. The city-state mentality. “Friendliness” From the moment you see the Cubs/Chicago Tribune propaganda on WGN, you think, “what a great place.”–then they suck you it and tax you.
J.R. Says:
June 30, 2008 at 9:23 pm edit
I will say Chicago is a fun so much as your liver can hold up, lol. I probably went out like 4 nights a weeks when I lived there last year. Its like you sit in your apt and freeze or go out and drink and freeze.
DarcsFalcon Says:
June 30, 2008 at 9:43 pm edit
JG – Thank you so much for stopping by! It’s always a pleasure to meet like-minded people!
You are so right about all the things you mentioned. And did you know, Chicago has one of the worst asthma records in the country? Breathing here is hard to do, but if you can get away with it, they’ll tax it.
I’m so with you – I wasn’t raised here either, and I too long for something more peaceful, with less traffic, and more friendliness.
As for the gun ban – yep, that went into effect in 1981 or 2 I believe, but thanks to the recent 2nd Amendment case, that ban is being challenged and is expected to be overturned, at least in some measure.
And please feel free to stop back in anytime! Vent all you need to – you are welcome here. )
DarcsFalcon Says:
June 30, 2008 at 9:48 pm edit
JR – You’re so right – the hypocrisy is mind-boggling sometimes. I just can’t get over how many people buy the BS, when it’s so obvious. People just shrug and say, “Well, wateru gonna doo? Diss is Shikahgah” like they’re proud of being taken for a ride.
BoloGal Says:
June 30, 2008 at 11:55 pm edit
FIY-this is going to be a long tirade, since I have a million things to say, and compounded with excitement of discovering all of you like-minded people.…Where do I begin? I moved here 16 years ago (I am preparing to get the hell out to SF ) I did not like it from the beginning, but felt time was needed to get used to things, or to get to know a different side of the city, since it’s ‘so versatile’ and ‘cultural.’ Well, I gave it more that a chance, and here are some observations:
A giant ghetto, occasionally classed up by a Starbucks. An honorable mention to Dunkin Doughnuts, which could very well be synonymous with Chicago, along with Polish sausage and other deep-fried legends of the local cuisine.
A corporate rat maze (downtown) interjected by fast food joints and bars. (OK, I begrudgingly admit the 5 star restaurants are a welcome relief and well deserve the rating).
An urban redneck oasis (a term someone brilliantly delivered up thread) with the NW Side still in 1996 and the South Side in 1984.
A hipster ‘scene,’ where the trendy crowd attempts to buy identity of a faux cosmopolitan with their credit card budget. (But that’s ok, cause mom and dad will cough up down-payment on that Lincoln Park condo anyway).
A corporate rat maze, and a tourist Disneyland- due to congestion and ridiculous distances always turns out to be an exhausting way to spend a day.
The Chicago Magnificent Mall-it’s got a Bulgari so “no, it’s not at all like the Mall of America.” It does however probably serve more pounds of fast food cheese daily.
Sure, it has a number of architectural stars, but what about the remaining 99%?
…It seems the rest of the architects went to the Gambino School of Architecture. And let’s not neglect to the vision that are the vintage rental bldgs- wooden, scrappy and brittle porches…ahh, joie de vivre! Let’s keep that Mies Van Der Rohe proud…
To the locals (btw, very pleased with their aesthetic sensibility), this landscape cannot be rivaled by beauty of Rome…or even Vegas.
Friendly…my ass. Friendly in terms of helping a lost tourist with directions, but that’s that. The problem with Chicagoans is that they confuse common courtesy with exceptional friendliness, that they so freely give themselves credit for, and not understanding standards outside, Chicago (IN excluded). Barn manners elsewhere would here be what we call laid back.
2.8 mil. people who can’t govern themselves. No. Collective. Action. Whatsoever. No collective social conscience. City officials rule totalitarian style (taxation, i.e.), and with zero benefit for the people other than friends with city official jobs, or in the construction business. Daley has been practically electing himself each time. What have Chicagoans done about it? Nada. But a bit of critical thought maybe hard to process when you’re in a meatball pizza induced coma.
I have more to say, but will do so next time…
Tc, all! So happy to learn you all exist!
J.R. Says:
July 1, 2008 at 4:10 am edit
bologal- lol, Gambino School of Architecture, so true. Like many of the people here I was so excited to find this blog post, I emailed falcon.
For some reason, I feel like this is some sort of unknown wisdom that very few are lucky to be able to understand. Maybe this is why I am so excited about talking about this subject, haha. When you are walking around your neighborhood or at the grocery store 99% of the people will have no idea WTF you are talking about analyzing Chicago. It is only with the advent of the internet, have the underground critics found a place to meet.
As a result, many here are shocked to find out that other people have looked around Chicagoland and said, “WTF is wrong with this place!”
Furthermore, any attempt to criticize it, is shot down with personal assaults and trivial name calling. Did you ever think, Chicago lovers out there, that maybe this is constructive criticism and people here actually care about the crumbling city?
I could talk about this all day. At first, I started my blog out of pure rage against the place. But now its just like a giant joke to me. The joke is on you if you live there!
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 1, 2008 at 1:37 pm edit
BoloGal – Welcome welcome! And take as long as you need for your tirades! Couple of things you said made me LOL – I love your sarcastic spin on things. ) The line about barn manners was so dead on, and the confusing courtesy with friendliness, too true!
Oh, and the “cannot govern themselves,” is one of my faves. I just don’t get that – it’s like something’s in the water that prevents people from doing anything about the way this city is run. And to top it off, they’re proud of it. >shakes head<
What part of SF are you planning on going to? The city, or the ‘burbs?
Please come back again BG, it was nice to have you visit!
hey Says:
July 3, 2008 at 12:25 pm edit
I’ve really enjoyed reading this thread. It’s nice that all the provincial girl scouts have a place to cry together. Perhaps this forum should merge with LA sucks, nyc sucks, boston sucks, san f. sucks etc… Many of the complaints on this board reveal little more then a lack of sophistication on the part of the author. Seriously, take a look at other _________ city sucks blogs. Full of the same uncultured opinionated garbage.
Chicago never made any promises to anyone. Some people are just too soft to make it in Chicago plain and simple. Chicago is not for everyone, not everyone likes living and working in a major metropolis. That’s why cities like Phoenix and Atlanta exit. I hear Phoenix has great Opera, wonderful museums, and loads of diverse white people from all over California.
Someone mentioned San Fran, a cute and pretty city, I used to live and work there and liked it a lot, trust me though when i say it’s a few tiers two below Chicago. There is much to like there, but after the initial honeymoon, you will find it to be corrupt, less cultured, a homeless haven, few cabs, terrible public transport, much dirtier, uninspiring night life, delusional citizens believe the city is better then Paris, Tokyo, etc…more on par with Minneapolis(not an insult, I hear good things about Minneapolis) can be sort of pathetic etc… I have lived and worked in San Fran, nyc, Rome, bologna, and Chicago. I have very positive things to say about each city and don’t really care for the naysayers that can’t cut it. But guess what they all have problems and they are not for everyone. Paris has massive slums and race riots, London has some of the worst traffic and ugliest housing in Western Europe. Rome/Nyc is dirty and smells like urine. Good luck finding your paradise, from reading some of these post it sounds like many of you are A. running from another problem or B. just not cut out for big city life.
Anyways, thanks for letting me rant. I enjoyed this little tirade. I found it to be rather therapeutic. But really, most cities, particularly big ones are going to have an upside and a downside.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 3, 2008 at 3:01 pm edit
So Hey, do you believe that you’re sophisticated because you’ve lived all over Europe? I’m not impressed. And you know, it’s rather unsophisticated to go to someone else’s blog and call them unsophisticated. It’s also unsophisticated to insult the readers and commenters of said blog. You may say such things in your own “house,” but it’s extreme bad manners to do so in another’s. Truly sophisticated people don’t behave that way.
And it’s especially amusing that you come here to insult my distaste of one city, and then proceed to insult and declare you own distaste for other cities!
Ah, thanks for the chuckles! Happy 4th!
J.R. Says:
July 3, 2008 at 5:03 pm edit
Hey- I’m sure people can find insults for any city. Personally, I think comparing a few international cities (and I keep hearing the same ones over and over again, LA, SF, NYC, BOSTON, LONDON, let me know if I left any out.) and calling others “uncultured” is narrow minded and uncultured. Many of those other cities were on the Forbes list of miserable cities as well, perhaps because the size? Namely, LA and NYC
For example: “Chicago is not for everyone, not everyone likes living and working in a major metropolis. That’s why cities like Phoenix and Atlanta exit.”
Have you even lived in Phoenix or Atlanta? Its this same arrogance Chicagoans have and probably other “important” cities have. Just because a city has a lot of people does not make it automatically important, its the perception of importance that is annoying.
I was never out to analyze other cities, and maybe some of the things I say apply elsewhere, but I’m pretty sure Chicago will get to you hey, try living there for more than 20 years and maybe you can relate. This is when Chicagoans take a vacation to Phoenix.
BoloGal Says:
July 3, 2008 at 5:35 pm edit
To Hey,
Although it will be harsh, this is not meant to be unkind-merely to point out hypocrisy:
I am quoting your statements to respond directly.
“Many of the complaints on this board reveal little more then a lack of sophistication on the part of the author”
This statement must include your own post, I hope.
“I hear Phoenix has great Opera, wonderful museums, and loads of diverse white people from all over California.”
Unless you’re 14, there’s no optimistic explanation for your critical analysis, or composition skills. Judging from your writing
style, you are hardly in a position to criticize anyone’s sophistication or lack there off.
“But guess what they all have problems and they are not for everyone. Paris has massive slums and race riots, London has some of the worst traffic and ugliest housing in Western Europe. Rome/Nyc is dirty and smells like urine. Good luck finding your paradise, from reading some of these post it sounds like many of you are A. running from another problem or B. just not cut out for big city life.”
Hmm, the above quote of your post is HARDLY A REVELATION, though it may seem that way to you. In fact, I am sure I am speaking for all of us here, we are well aware of what you described, but only you seem to regard as breaking information to us. I will blame Giordano’s sauce fumes, that must have seeped into your unsuspecting brain.
People living in other cities, unless they’re nuts, don’t make pretense that things are rosy. Chicagoans however look at their rotting wooden porches and see Tajma Hall.
(Again, I blame the pizza sauce fumes)
It does remind me though of a robotic response you get from a Chicagoan when you say you don’t like the town: ‘There’s a ton of bars and restaurants here,’ as if the concept was unique to Chicago. (They truly think it is).
I will try to make something of your shallow observation however:
See, we know that there’s good and bad to every city. However, to us here, the problem with Chicago is that mostly (if not totally, if you ask me) it is bad. If you weigh the good vs the bad, you may or may not find balance. With Chicago, there’s hardly hope for balance. Bad outweighs the good by a ridiculously long margin. None of us are looking for paradise, since we choose to live in a large US city. We do however have the right to weight the good and the bad, and again, the BAD WINS HANDS DOWN. The weather, obesity, asthma and crime rates, forever lagging behind national average education scores, # of bars per capita, waiting for a train in the winter, or driving over more potholes than asphalt in the never ending traffic. What a healthy lifestyle….Long distances, crowds, the political and urban decay, and so much more, are bad enough, but still defended by cavorting slobs, who regard urine soaked SF sidewalks inferior to urine soaked L train platforms, all over Chicago. (So, does the local urine simply smell better because it’s 50% Bud Lite?)
Again, you don’t seem to defend the local BS (evidently you accept it as common imperfections typical of large cities), but please get off our backs for venting to a someone like-minded, when all we’ve experienced was vulgar abuse for pointing out the bull.
Chicagoans pride themselves at being friendly. With. No. Reason or right. Whatsoever. And, every time you express negative opinion about their town they have ONE AND ONE RESPONSE ONLY: ‘get the f… out.’ Hmm, how polished, and inviting… yet they still think they’re friendly!
Funny how they don’t mind perpetuating the fake ‘friendly’ stereotype, but they’re up in pitchforks over a truthful negative observation…
BoloGal Says:
July 3, 2008 at 6:25 pm edit
and Hey…
“Chicago never made any promises to anyone.”
Not true. It’s continuously falsely misrepresents itself as friendly. It really isn’t.
It also sells itself as ‘down to earth,’ which is a contradiction to the grandiosity most locals exhibit when it comes to their city and their lifestyles.
BoloGal Says:
July 3, 2008 at 6:45 pm edit
(and J.R.)
Thank you for welcoming me ;) Im so relieved not be the only outsider anymore. For years I’ve felt like someone from another planet (not just form another country). The part though that sucked more than the dislike for the town itself (it’s grueling, and insipid) was the expectation to revel in the fabulousness of Cubby Bear, or Taste of Chicago, or Crawbar (ugh), or ‘great transit system’… Either comply or be a snob… Well, I took the snob label, of course. Wear it with conviction…when here of course. Evidently there’s no need for that in St. Louis, or San Fran, or Prague or, again, anywhere but here…
Now I want to take a shower though, feeling dirty for berating Hey so harshly… (
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 3, 2008 at 6:46 pm edit
JR – Thank you for reminding us that this mostly started because of that Forbes article listing Chicago in the Top 10 Most Miserable Cities! And also for pointing out that most of the BS we’ve encountered has been after living here and dealing with it for so long that it’s become unbearable. Visitors don’t have the same perceptions that we long-term sufferers do.
BoloGal – *applause* I love your feisty response! Well said! I loved the line about Taj Mahal and the pizza sauce fumes! My kids came running to see why I was laughing so hard. D Bravo!
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 3, 2008 at 6:53 pm edit
BoloGal – you are indeed welcome. ) Oh that is so true – the expectation to comply. I hadn’t really thought about it until you mentioned it, but so many things rush back to me now – the insults just because you don’t feel the same way about things as the “natives” do. I never got why so many Chicagoans seemed to revel in rudeness.
Enjoy your shower! (But I didn’t think you were all that harsh!)
J.R. Says:
July 4, 2008 at 9:08 am edit
There definitely is an expectation to revel the fabulousness of the place as Bologal said.
“If you like Chicago, here’s a site for you, or you can go here. They like Chicago too.” Falcon said that in the post, this has become more of a forum and every now and then someone comes in here and says we are all crazy for not conforming.
Everyone must understand there is an enormous PR campaign the city has to drive people in.
Happy 4th!
Benster Says:
July 7, 2008 at 1:14 am edit
Sigh. Yes. Chicago sucks. It sucks in a big way. I live in SF and love it. I’ve been to Chicago a couple of times and I’ll be visiting more because I’ve got family out there. People have told me how great Chicago is, but I just don’t see it. Here in the SF Bay Area, the climate couldn’t be any more perfect. The only downside is how expensive housing is. Other than that, SF and the rest of California trumps on so many levels. My suggestions would be: Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, San Diego, NYC, Washington DC… basically anywhere along the West and East Coasts. You can’t lose.
Benster Says:
July 7, 2008 at 1:17 am edit
Oh. I know all those cities I mentioned are expensive, but you might as well live in an area that you actually like and still pay high rent than live in a sucky area while paying high rent.
Back To Basics: Chicago Hypocrisy « Chicago Withdrawal Says:
July 7, 2008 at 3:51 am edit
[…] also mentioned the gun ban in the now famous, “Why Chicago Sucks” post in Darcfalcons blog.  Falcon started it as a joke and now its her most popular post.   […]
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 7, 2008 at 6:02 pm edit
Benster – Thanks for stopping by! Yes, SF has a lot of lovely things to offer – especially food! You just cannot get good sourdough any place else! I grew up in the Bay Area so it’s familiar to me. Chicagoans like to brag about how great their city is even though it’s been proven time and again that it’s not. And everyone else in the country knows it.
Hope to see you again!
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 7, 2008 at 6:03 pm edit
JR – you flatter me dude! Thanks! D
July 8, 2008 at 12:09 am edit
To our friend Hey- The cubbies are back in town this week. How about meeting us all up at Harry Careys! So sad its predecessor went out of business. I heard on the news today that Wrigley was going to host an NHL game on 1/1/09 Black Hawks vs Detroit. Two comments 1) The plumbing at Wrigley barely works in the summer, how the hell is it going to hold up in 10 below weather? 2) So Chicago to steal an idea from a smaller city and claim it as there own. Last winter there was an outdoor NHL game in Buffalo sort of a novelty. So Chicago city fathers thought let’s do it at Wrigley. Great idea guys!. The suckers in this city will love it. Just like Daley diverting everyone’s attention from the day to day problems- CTA, Crime, Police shootings and being shot, gangs, young thugs roaming the Loop at nite, overgentfrication, by bidding for the Olympics in 8 years. Hell, it’s tough enough to think about being here in 2009. Who can even think of 2016 for shits sake!
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 8, 2008 at 12:38 am edit
Hey welcome back PistolPete! I had to laugh – you know good and well, as I do, that Daley is planning on still being Mayor in 2016! And knowing Chicagoans, he probably will be, if he’s still alive. They should re-name the place Daleyville. Good to see you again. )
J.R. Says:
July 8, 2008 at 3:49 am edit
Wrigley is such a marketing ploy by the Tribune Corporation. The place is roting from the inside out. plus its always like at least 50+ dollars for the “Classic ballpark” feel. I’d rather go to U.S. Cellular at like half price and dollar hot dog night.
July 8, 2008 at 10:37 pm edit
Not only the Cell, but if Chicago existed from I-290 south it wouldnt be so bad. At least no Wrigleyville, Bucktown hipsters, Lincoln Park yups live down South. So maybe for some it’s only 50% Chicago sucks. Speaking of I-290 its funny how traffic reporters call it “The Ike”. Does anybody under 40 or from other countries (about 75% of the population) know Dwight D Eisenhower was Ike. Just call it the Eisenhower or I-290. Not the Ike!
J.R. Says:
July 8, 2008 at 11:32 pm edit
Northside is alright so long as you are in the right bars or places. Most favorite bar of all time on the Northside is the Old Town Ale house just off north and Wells. All the neighborhood locals are painted on the wall and drinking in there, haha. Plus the people are nice in there. I was talking to people in there about Chicago one time and I got hammered just off of drinks people were buying me, lol. I wasn’t even asking they just kept buying drinks.
I think it recently got voted best dive bar. I think it was the last place Chris Farley drank at. Plus like it scares certain types of people away which can be a good thing. One time I saw Andy shaw from the news in there and I called the “Sun Times” the “Slum times” to his face. I think I pissed him off, lol.
As far as the northside goes, my uncle lived near Damen in the late 80s and can’t believe the changes. He owned a building in Logan Square a few years ago and it was section 8 housing. He said there was whores and kids runnning around. He went there one time and asked a little kid if his mom was around and the kid replied, “Yo fuck you whitey.” Chicago hospitality for you.
But yeah South Side is a different world, definitely not like the Northside at all. I like my Dupage County, just don’t think I could own property in Cook. I’d be forever tied to county poltics then.
Leah Says:
July 10, 2008 at 5:31 pm edit
One of the suckiest things about Chicago is its paternalistic, condescending treatment of its people. The powers that be simply don’t believe that the average citizen has the ability to think for her/himself. Twice this summer, I have attempted to swim at the free city pools. Now, the idea of having a free pool system for the citizens–not really free, of course, but paid for by the absurdly high taxes–sounds great on the surface. Two weeks ago, I visited McKinley Park on the southwest side, and was told by the bored, teenage male lifeguards that I could not enter the deep end of the pool unless I submitted to a swim test. I am 49 years old, and have not had to submit to a swim test since I was about 12. Under protest, I did swim the length of the pool twice, as I was ordered, only to be told that I wasn’t using the right swimming “style” and needed to be re-tested. At this point, I told the boys that I was going to swim anyway, and there was nothing they could do about it. They were amazed and upset, but they didn’t try to stop me. I was able to swim, but I didn’t enjoy it much. Hoping to avoid a repeat of this experience, I visited the Portage Pool two weeks later. As I approached the gate, three of the pool employees told me that I could not enter the pool area with my backpack or purse. I protested, saying that my car was parked four blocks away, and I did not want to put my possessions in the locker room, where they would certainly be stolen. As a “compromise”, the now hostile employees told me to put my backpack in the locker room, and wrap my purse in my beach towel. Again, I begrudgingly followed orders, wrapped up my purse securely, and attempted to re-enter the pool area. A tiny bit of purse strap protruded from under my towel, and this got me busted. The employees told me that the contents of my purse could enter the pool area, but not the purse itself. In other words, I needed to remove all my valuables from the purse, wrap them individually in the towel, and stow my empty purse in the locker room. At this point, I became disgusted and simply jumped into the water, tossing my towel and purse aside to a place where I could see them. Immediately, I was approached by a security guard (I found out later that he was an off-duty policeman–doesn’t the city pay them enough on their regular jobs?) and was ordered to leave the pool. I had the distinct impression that he would have punched me if I had refused. I did as I was told, but I let him know in no uncertain terms how I felt about the whole deal.
I can see why people become frustrated and apathetic here when dealing with the bureaucracy–you can complain all you want, but nothing gets done. I called the park district after both incidents, and got nowhere. I was told that rules were rules, and if I didn’t like it, too bad. Your tax dollars at work! I, too, lived on the west coast for years, where if people didn’t like a rule, they worked together and challenged–and often changed–the rule. If you just suggest to people here that they try a similar approach, they can’t even imagine it. Very frustrating!!
DarcKnyt Says:
July 10, 2008 at 8:54 pm edit
Leah — You’re a brave soul, swimming in a Shitcago public swimming pool. ;)
Rules are fine, but do they have to be so stupid?? Jeez.
franktown Says:
July 10, 2008 at 11:12 pm edit
Listen, hey,
Me and you are the only ones (so far) who have come on this board to defend Chicago. But please, refrain from insulting other cities! We all know that the “inferiority” complex that the people on here speak of is BS, so don’t give them something to play on. Chicago is a great city, but Phoenix is also a great city, as well as LA, NYC, SF, etc. We all know that Chicago isn’t the only city in the US. Let them hulk over on their own self pity and cry while we have fun.
DarcsFalcon, how have you been? Please take this as a compliment as you are the only one so far on this site who has reasonable arguments as to why “Chicago sucks”. I understand your complaints, and agree with many of them, but can’t you just admit that some of these people visiting your site give it a bad name? For example, many of these users complain that Chicago is too drunk, rowdy, and obnoxious. They complain of the amount of trashy bars and nightclubs it has, and then start talking about getting trashed and going out to nightclubs in Chicago themselves, and even start recommending some to one another.
They complain about traffic, but refuse to take mass transit because of what “they’ve heard from people”. If they do take mass transit, you expect heaven on a plate. Sorry bros, you aint gonna find that in Chi, NYC, or SF. YOU have to take the initiative and walk a couple of blocks, or wait a couple of extra minutes for the bus or train. This is a problem happening nationwide due to rising gas prices and increased public transportation.
Many here whine about how rude the people are, but clump Chicagoans into a group and (mind I say) accuse us of some pretty audacious things. Some of the things they call us (redneck and other slang terms for whites) is pretty ironic judging by the fact that they say we treat ethnic minorities unfairly. Hah, so let’s pick on the young white people then, good idea! And Chicagoans are hypocrites?
It’s nice you created this site, and please keep it up. I’m glad you guys have found a good place to vent about the city, but some of the things said on here about Chicagoans and the city itself are mind boggling, and untrue. Many of you admitted you don’t even leave your apartment. Well, find something you like. Art scenes, film scenes, anything. It’s here because I’ve experienced it.
I said I’d leave, but I like to debate you people on this site. DarcsFalcon, you’re right. Chicagoans don’t care about what you think of the city, but we don’t like many of you calling us names and judging us. Notice how in all of my posts, I’ve never done any of that, and you many people call Chicagoans the judgers! Haha. Talk to me people. I’d like to hear the responses and names that will be thrown at me right now.
J.R. Says:
July 11, 2008 at 6:27 am edit
You may be speaking of me as one of the ones who complain of rowdiness and then act rowdy myself. Let me explain the difference between me and the Chicago way of life.
First of all I’m 22, I’m not like 40 or even 30. Going to bars and drinking can seem like of a way of life in Chicago rather then a youthful endeavor. I’m not complaining of the rowdiness, I’m just pointing out the fact that Chicagoans drink to avoid the problems in the city– its just another distraction from real issues of the city like the ones listed in previous comments here. And this is hardly one of the top problems of the place.
Your comment on transit makes sense. It isn’t that transit that is as bad as the people telling you to take it. They are hypocrites. I lived in the city for a year without a car so believe me I know. Many people in Chicago will tell YOU to take transit while driving themselves EVERYWHERE. I have met numerous people who say this, including family members. Your attitude on Chicago transit boils down to “deal with it.”
Other cities have these problems yes. But Chicago has a host of problems and the difference is the SCALE of the city population wise. Chicago is the third most populated area in the country, and the CTA is a joke. Have you ever waited for the CTA and froze your balls off? I did for a year straight not to mention taking the metra to High school. Do you even take the train Franktown? If not, you are exactly the hypocrites I speak of when talking about Chicago “take the train while I drive everywhere hypocrites.”
And how about you start your own blog Franktown? I don’t really feel like arguing with you on a post that isn’t ment for you. Quit making excuses for the city and saying “you arn’t going to find that anywhere” This is the attitude is why nothing ever gets done in Chicago and why transit never improves. I’ve been told “it isn’t better anywhere” then I left Chicago and found out what a load of shit that is.
franktown Says:
July 11, 2008 at 10:17 am edit
I do take the train. In fact, I don’t own a car. I can get ANYWHERE I want in the city, be it the South Side (which is really gentrifying by the way- if you actually lived in Chicago, you’d be aware of that). If I need to get to the ‘burbs, I take the Metra train, which pretty much gets me everywhere.
And guess what, Chicago was recently named the best biking city in the US, which I frequently use all the time!
Stop complaining about the cold! You are such a weakling. Do you have balls? At all? Or did Chicago’s bravado cut them off? Haha, if Chicago beats you, cities like NYC,LA, SF, and Philly will eat you alive! You need to be strong willed to survive in Chicago, which you are obviously not. You left Chicago? Great! Why are you complaining? Chicago’s metropolitan area continues to grow because people have gotten jobs here and because people like it here. Make more room for them and get out here! Drink to cope with problems of the city? No my friend. We drink socially to have fun. We make the best of what we have. Unlike you who has ZERO points to make (unlike DarcsFalcon) and who seems to be hijaking her blog.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 11, 2008 at 11:24 am edit
Leah – Thank you for stopping by! I’m sorry you’ve had such a crappy experience. Those rules you mention make no sense to me – your purse contents can come in but your purse can’t? To whom does this make sense?
And I think you may have hit on something for me. I grew up on the west coast, and “prop-this” or “prop-that” was always on the ballot. If people thought something was broken, they did what they could to fix it. Nothing like that exists here and people just go on with the same old same old and nothing ever gets fixed, no matter how broken it is. And no one seems to mind, but for a few, and if we few say anything, then we’re viewed as whining and complaining and get the hell out this is Chicago for Pete’s sake what did you expect?!
It IS very frustrating, just as you said.
I hope to see you again. )
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 11, 2008 at 1:38 pm edit
Franktown! You came back! And here I thought you’d totally written me off. ;)
I thank you for your kind words Frank, but no, I won’t “admit that my visitors give Chicago a bad name.” I think my visitors are frustrated by those who give Chicago a bad name. One thing I’ve noticed is that a majority of them came here expecting Chicago to live up to it’s claims of friendliness, and a better way of life. These don’t seem to be folks who grew up here knowing only “the Chicago way” as a way of life, except for JR. And what these people found, and JR too when he left, is that what Chicago claims, and what Chicago delivers, are 2 very different things. We’ve all been left with the feeling that Chicago pulled a fast one on us and then laughed at our naiveté.
And I think the only one who mentioned hanging out at a bar said that it had formerly been a nice quiet nightclub until it was overrun by rowdy 20-somethings. I don’t think he mentioned getting trashed either. I personally have no problem with people going out to enjoy a drink at a club. It’s just that for many, that seems to be the ONLY thing to do and that bothers them.
I don’t think anyone here said they never leave their apartment, did they? I think it’s because they DO leave their apartments that they feel the way they do about the city. The things we’ve said are “mind-boggling and untrue”? Dude! I referenced nearly all my complaints with links to verify them! This whole post started because Forbes Magazine listed Chicago as one of the Top 10 Most Miserable US Cities. We just agree and tell why. I didn’t just make crap up, and I doubt the commentors did either. I kind of doubt they’d make up the things they’ve experienced. I know human nature and sometimes people do things for the most odd and unpredictable reasons, but these stories have a ring of truth to them. And some of what these folks have complained about, I have myself experienced. And our complaints aren’t so much with the things to do or not do – they center around the prevailing attitudes of the people we deal with on a daily basis. Nothing ever changes, nothing gets better. It’s like Chicagoans – as a general rule – are proud of the stink because it’s a Chicago stink and if you don’t like it you can leave. I ask, why not get rid of the stink? Did you know the last time a Republican was mayor was in 1931? How many Republicans are aldermen? How many on the city council? How many are in a Chicago public office in any capacity? Yet people continue to elect Democrats despite the constant raising of taxes, corruption, and foul play. Why aren’t these people voted out of office? They either like the corruption or they don’t care, and that’s the apathy we’re talking about. Chicago has always had the potential to be a great city, but it flat-out rejects all the positives it could have.
Sure, there are some friendly Chicagoans and I don’t think anyone’s denied that. Sadly, they don’t seem to be in the majority. Our question is, they’re friendly in other cities, why not here?
As for the mass transit thing, I doubt anyone expects “heaven on a plate.” They DO expect reliable service though and I know for a fact that ain’t happening. My husband has to take the train in every day, and most days the train is running late. They are crowded to the point that often it’s standing room only in the vestibules. I also just read in the Trib that Metra has been trying to buy back old cars to accommodate all the commuters because crowding is so bad. And I also know this – I used to live in BART country, and I did a little research last night. BART can get a person from the farthest point on the line to downtown SF in just under an hour, for less money than it takes to do the same here, to Chicago. (roughly the same distance) It takes my husband 90 min on the train to get downtown. Not exactly walking distance Frank, and our train line does NOT provide weekend OR holiday service. So often it’s not a refusal to take mass transit, but the absolute inability to do so because the service isn’t provided. Can you guess why we get so frustrated when people say, “Take the train!” when there isn’t any f*cking train to take? Plus, I live in between 2 train stations that are 10 miles apart. You call that walking distance? And it’s more than a mile to the nearest bus stop. Try that with 2 little kids and 12 bags of groceries. Not that the bus goes to the grocery store.
And I’m not going into the racial thing here.
I’m curious Frank – why do you like to debate me and the visitors here? Do you think you can undo what we’ve experienced? Do you think you can tell us something we haven’t heard before about Chicago? Trust me, we’ve heard all the “”positive rhetoric.” For some, it’s why they moved here, and then they found out it was just rhetoric with no substance to back it up. Do you think you can change our minds about how we feel? We’re just blowing off steam from what we deal with on a regular basis. We’re not trying to hurt anyone or insult anyone. We just want to feel heard and understood, be around other like-minded people. We KNOW you disagree, that’s why we’re HERE, at MY house, so we won’t bother or offend you with our venting.
Honestly Frank, I don’t think anyone has any problem with you loving your city. In fact, many might even envy you a bit. We’d ALL like to love where we live. It’s just that when we try to do that with Chicago, we get shot down in flames. There really isn’t anything for you to “debate” here, this isn’t a discussion; it’s a relief-valve.
I’m glad you came back though, and I hope to see you again. But next time, do you think you could hold back on the “you guys are wrong!” thing and just say instead, “I’m sorry you feel that way and haven’t had a good experience”?
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 11, 2008 at 4:00 pm edit
Franktown – just found your 2nd post in my spam folder. (wordpress does that automatically when there’s links in a comment) Um, have you checked out JR’s blog? You can click his name in his comments, or see the “Chicago Withdrawal” link on my blogroll. He’s got some points to make.
And, just to throw this in – Dubai has air conditioned bus stops. You’d think with the highest tax rate in the country that Chicago might build some heated ones. Just sayin’.
Oh, and by the way, I did a little research. I found that the city population is going down. http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-Midwest/Chicago-Population-Profile.html
City Residents
1980: 3,005,000
1990: 2,783,726
2000: 2,896,016
2003 estimate: 2,869,121 (down from just 3 yrs prior, and still not up to 1980 levels)
Percent change, 1990–2000: 4%
U.S. rank in 1980: 2nd
U.S. rank in 1990: 3rd
U.S. rank in 2000: 3rd
J.R. Says:
July 12, 2008 at 1:00 am edit
Franktown “You are such a weakling. Do you have balls?”
Did I sink to personal insults? No. You know these defensive arguments by “true” Chicagoans are so predictable.
“NYC,LA, SF, and Philly will eat you alive! ” Have you even lived in all of those cities? For how long?
Its the barbaric inhabitants like you that assume you need to be “tough” to live in civilization who make this city a nightmare for anyone who has the willingness to advance themselves.
What do you mean by “eat me alive?” Are you a big tough ##########? Mr. “Tough guy Chicago” You have to be tough in Chicago because you can’t own a weapon. Good luck fighting the gangs off with your hands.
Are you even from Chicago? Did you grow up in Illinois? Its ridiculous. I swear all the people that haven’t grown up under the police state called Chicago are the biggest proponents of the place. Did you go to school in Chicago?
You’re probably not even from Chicago. You don’t have a car? Pretty excited to tell me you take you bike everywhere? Good for you riding your bike. I don’t have a car either.
You may be willing to defend the insane degeneration of the place, at best mediocre qualities but I’m not. If you want to start using personal insults, I will win.
I grew up, went to school, live next to people like you when I go home. I didn’t come online to argue with people particularly, I came on here to find people LIKE me. I know the average “RAH RAH Chicago” propaganda.
So enjoy being Mr. Tough passive aggressive Chicagoan. Enjoy your 10.5% tax rate. Enjoy your not existent firearms.
My blog is a rip of Darcs? Actuallly I was going to stop my blog and Falcon said I should continue it. I talk about Harry Potter in a recent post, you should read! Is Harry Potter not tough enough for you big badass Chicagoan? Guess what I don’t give a ####. I’ll still shoot you with my gun from Dupage County where you can own weapons, legally.
I always said my friend went over the edge when he said he wished he could raise Lake Michigan 100feet, and put a barricade around Dupage County but not anymore. Cook County is truly the trash of the universe and anyone with any brain knows it. Thats why the rest of the State hates your county.
J.R. Says:
July 12, 2008 at 1:11 am edit
I’ve said my piece I’m not going to even bother arguing this issue anymore, unless someone directly questions me, as I am exhausted off it. I’m not here to convince people.
If someone lives in Chicago for years and years and can’t figure out your points, then there is no point in telling them. My only worry is the rest of the country becomes as mediocre and bland as the Chicago– Never challenge authority Daley knows best mentality. Forget Cook County, its not worth the trouble.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 12, 2008 at 11:46 am edit
JR – No, we’re not here to convince people. Those who come here to vent already know and understand how we feel and why.
If Chicag-Obama gets elected, we may indeed have to deal with the whole country going the way of Chicago politics. I have hope though. Always.
franktown Says:
July 12, 2008 at 5:46 pm edit
I am sorry that you feel that way – DarcsFalcon only – as she hasn’t insulted Chicagoans personally.
JR, you DID resort to personal insults. You were generalizing about Chicagoans and said some pretty ridiculous stuff. I am NOT sorry for your feelings. If you feel like you must insult others to make yourself (and your feelings of Chicago) heard, you know where to stick it.
The truth is, hey was right, Chicago never promised people anything. Sure, it tries to attract people, but it knows some people won’t like it, and I know some people won’t like it. Well, “why do you give a shit about what we say?” you might ask me? Well, I do and I don’t. I do truly want everyone to like Chicago, but I do expect there to be many people who don’t. I guess what really bugs me about this blog is that people are insulting Chicagoans personally. Ask yourselves (DarcsFalcon not included, due to her being nice), if you resort to low insults of the city, does that really make people want to listen to you?
I guess the reason I post here is, just in case people thinking of moving to Chicago read this, that they see a balanced blog, with counter arguments. They must know there are two sides to this argument.
realr Says:
July 12, 2008 at 10:23 pm edit
If you want a balanced argument, maybe as the author and creator of this board has suggested, you might want to show at least a modicum of respect for this author, board et al.
Now, that being said; I will start off with I have actually lived in small towns and cities much bigger than Chicago. I have moved and lived elsewhere both for personal and business reasons, and I will say and having experienced the worst of the worst, whether infrastructure wise or in regard to the people of this “so called” fine city. Here, and only here, I have seen (and I posted this earlier on JR’s blog) Chicagoans call African-Americans and people of the Jewish faith words (I am sure you can guess what they might be) the most vile, sickening, derogatory remarks. I have not seen nor heard this in San Francisco, LA, and even south Texas; and as a side note I have met the friendliest quietly strong (not necessarily physical strength, but strength of spirit) in the time I lived in south Texas, San Antonio area. I call that type the “old school” Americans, not brash, bragging, but thoughtful and quiet. You don’t say anything unless needed, do not poke you nose into someone else’s business (which is rampant here, more later).
I have posted this I think on another one of Dar’s sites, but I posted an example (in regard to poking your nose into someone else’s affairs, a few years ago, a good friend and her husband and I were riding the “L” and they were sitting next to me; it was rush hour and we were heading home from work. We were talking quietly, but and she felt more comfortable (both are of European origin and quite brilliant) speaking French, she is not French, but although her is English is perfect, better than anyone here without a doubt, she felt more comfortable speaking French (it a language we had in common outside of English). So we are talking and this perfect citizen of this fine city starts leaning towards us, as we were speaking too softly to hear unless done so, and then after approx. five minutes, this guy starts laughing and putting his hand over his mouth like a little girl (and as a side note, what in the hell is that about, this is the only city I have lived in that does this low IQ nonsense. I have not seen this is any other city than this one. Do you even realize how stupid and moronic you look, wow, just wow, a city of perpetual 2.0 GPA high schoolers).
Anyway, he starts saying “listen to these show offs” while literally rocking back and forth with his hand over his mouth. I look at him and say quietly, “He (pointing to her husband), speaks three languages, she speaks four, I can speak two.
You are nothing but an illiterate bitch with your hand over your mouth like a little girl.” He just looked at me with shock, he walked back over where his friends while mumbling something under his breath. My friend and her husband just burst out laughing.
I will preface this with saying firstly, I am not muscular nor tall, but I do not take shit from anyone.
Regarding the above story; this did happen I really couldn’t give a shit if you believe it or not. Do a search you will find this is quite common for Chicago.
My best friend (also stated on JR’s blog) was born and raised here, tall linebacker built person. He was thinking of becoming a cop (his family has cops in it) as his brother thought his stature would make a good cop, but he decided against it.
Regarding racist remarks, he and his wife are Latino, and I said in a Dars blog, he gets egged on by these racist idiots of this city. He is one of the few quiet mind your own business type of intelligent people, but one day I saw him almost beat the living shit out of someone who was fucking with him, these racist redneck lowlifes have no idea they are playing with fire.
He even said how much the city has changed for the worse. He said growing up in Canaryville and Bridgeport, you would see idiots every once in awhile (like any city), but mostly people were OK. Now, he said it has gotten so bad he doesn’t want to leave yet, but for the first time, he has started thinking about just pulling up, and getting the hell out of here.
He said this city was spoiled by (these are his exact words) “These out of town motherfuckers”.
He knows I want (and of this writing) and am going to leave early this Fall, but he respects that (see my old school American example above).
I have had enough of being called names, yes one of the times I heard a racist name it was directed at me for no reason other than the way than my faith (you can guess that for yourself), in all the cities I have lived , this never was an issue, only Chicago.
The 10.5% tax rate and you receive nothing in return, the complacency of the citizens here, people act tough, but when the city runs amok when the dirty streets don’t get cleaned outside of the Loop or the tourist areas, the highest crime rate imaginable, a crumbling infrastructure, and then as of July 1st, the highest tax rate in the US, and no one dares say anything. They will act tough, but really they are complacent sheeple, that’s all they are.
Now Franktown, I do not know you from Adam, so I am not saying you are racist, nor you act like these low brow children, but one, your saying other cities you had mentioned will eat you alive is just pure nonsense and name calling, that is all it is. I have lived in some of those cities you mentioned, and I made it out very well. What you did was more of what I hear in Chicago, it is get the fuck out other cities will eat you alive; when these very same people have never been anywhere near these cities, although they probably would be sacred themselves to go.
Also, regarding drinking and theater, this is not good theater at all. It is very old shows that played off Broadway quite awhile ago.
If you want good theater and art, NYC and to a lesser degree San Francisco are the best, if you are in Europe it is Paris, I hear Vienna is nice, but I have never been there.
Although the Chicago Symphony Orchestra used to be world renowned, I don’t know if they still are, they might still be. That girl I mentioned saw a Mozart opera at the Opera House on Wacker when she was homesick, and she loved it. See, I am the most ardent anti-Chicago person, but I am adult enough to admit positive notes when it is necessary.
I also saw all lot of rock and hard rock concerts here. A lot of shows bypass Chicago, but the ones I saw were very good.
This is a place for people to vent their frustrations at all the nonsense of this city, and as mentioned ,there are pro-Chicago sites out there, no?
Don’t tell me your self esteem is so low you need to come on this site and write on this blog.
If you were to call me a racist name or try like so many other Chicagoans to get in my business, when I am minding my own, then I would think you are a piece of shit, but Franktown you didn’t. You might be actually a great guy to be around or an ass, I just don’t know.
I supposed it is OK you like Chicago, well good for you that you like it, but don’t try to convince people who have experienced much different to feel exactly the same. I pointed out the “chew you out” nonsense, because that is what it is was, but other than that, I am just pointing out you are talking to people who have seen and been through a lot of shit in this city, and Dars actually prefaces her site about what this site is about and points to some pro-Chicago sites.
Anyway, I will close with good night and good luck to everyone. I hope the people here actually find the happiness they are looking for somewhere. Life is too short and too painful to be in a place that brings more pain and suffering.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 13, 2008 at 2:23 am edit
Franktown – thank you for your courtesy. Your defense of Chicago is admirable, really it is. Please understand though, that one of the main reasons people come here, is exactly because of the sentiments you present. Chicago toots its own horn – WE are the counter balance.
And Frank, I don’t think anyone’s been more rude than you were the very first time you commented here, when you said everyone was whining like babies, and called me “probably the biggest jerk ever to set foot in Chicago.” Remember? You were expressing your opinion, just as they are, right? You weren’t really insulting me personally any more than anyone else here is insulting Chicagoans personally. You were frustrated and used language to express that. And that’s all they’re doing too.
I do think though that you kind of went after JR first here. I went back to check and I didn’t see him call you a name. The only thing I could find was where he said IF you were one of those who drove while telling others to take the train, THEN you were a hypocrite. Since the IF didn’t qualify, the THEN didn’t apply. And as for JR, I confess I’ve kind of a soft spot for him. He’s been nothing but nice to me – not ass-kissy, but always courteous and respectful. And I also keep in mind that this young man is seriously considering the military after he completes college, putting his life on the line for our freedom to express our opinions about this city-land we are a part of. To me, that requires a lot more balls than many men can lay claim to, and so I would ask that in the future you please be considerate of that.
I can promise you this though Frank – anyone thinking of moving here is not likely to find my blog. I ran multiple searches. There are only 2 ways to find it, and that’s by putting “Chicago Sucks” or “anti-Chicago” (WITH the dash, not without) into the search engine. I don’t show up in searches for “Chicago”, “I love Chicago”, “moving to Chicago”, “living in Chicago”, “Chicago news”, or even “I hate Chicago”. Those searches have a combined total of 547 million results. The measly little “Chicago sucks” search only turns up 8 million results by comparison. It seems that ONLY the people who’ve lived here end up finding my blog, so we’re not “turning away any potential neighbors.” Besides, do you really think that anyone seriously thinking of moving here would be put off by our motley little band of a few dozen dissenters? ;) I suspect we’d be viewed as “the disgruntled” and summarily dismissed. There are many, many people who love living here, and are only too happy to sing Chicago’s praises to anyone thinking of moving here. I heard the same songs before I moved here.
This isn’t an argument Frank. It’s not a discussion and it’s not a debate. We’re like long-lost buds running into each other, and exhaling in relief at finding a familiar face in a foreign place. Why would you want to diminish our happiness at finding a friend?
And Frank, next time you stop by my house here, I’m going to ask to see your “Balanced Blog Police ID” and the comments/reports you’ve left on all the other blogs that don’t meet the “Balanced Blog Requirements.” ;) I know that since balance is important to you, that you’ve gone over to some “I love Chicago” sites to tell them all the critical things about Chicago, you know, just to make sure they’re “balanced” too. D
July 13, 2008 at 3:04 am edit
Do you ever feel like your living in a third world nation in Chicago..??
CTA single tracking and delays this weekend have been excrutiating.
Supermarkets are crowded, unfriendly and we even had a Whole Foods closed for the past 4 days.
My nearby CVS has a 300 pound security guard keeping an eye on every patron at the counter.
Compare your suburban Fast Food joints to the one’s in the city.
And compare your suburban Targets and Walmarts to what we are stuck with in the City not to mention the Ghetto KMART in West town.
So the next time your hopping off a delayed CTA train with the other poor mopes dont forget to recite “Give your us your tired, your poor, etc.
Oh by the way Chicago, I like my hot dogs with sauerkraut and ketchup sometimes (what the hell is celery salt anyway)? And please dont cut pizzas in little squares! So cut my nuts off (to quote Jesse Jackson)
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 13, 2008 at 12:17 pm edit
RealR – Thank you for your defense and support of my blog. It means a lot to me. )
As you said, the folks here are only here to vent their frustrations and share some of the experiences they’ve had living here. One time, well, people can be jerks, and that can happen anywhere. When the same things happen on a regular basis, well then maybe there’s something about the place. And sadly, simply picking up and leaving is not always an option. I am so sorry you’ve dealt with the things you have. Race is an easy target, and often the first one people choose when they want to hurt somebody. We should be more tolerant, but sadly, ethnos vs ethnos will probably never change.
I pray that you have an easy move, and that you find much success and happiness in your new home. But please, don’t be a stranger! *hug*
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 13, 2008 at 12:26 pm edit
Pete – I saw that about Whole Foods! Eww! That’s just nasty! But, as my husband cracked, “At least they were organic rats!” ;)
Our suburban Wal-Marts have that guard too! We can’t leave the place without having our bags and receipt checked! I always feel like a suspect and it really pisses me off. Can’t they treat their customers – they’re PAYING customers – with more dignity and respect than that??
I like ketchup on my hotdogs too and I have no idea what’s up with the whole “anti-ketchup” thing Chicagoans have about their hot dogs. But they’ll put more sauce than cheese on their pizzas. *shaking head* I just don’t get it! But yes, do NOT cut that pizza into squares! LOL My husband hates that too. )
Good to see you back Pete. D
franktown Says:
July 13, 2008 at 5:22 pm edit
Realr, you actually included some racist remarks in your response, such as the term “redneck” which is obviously a crude reference to white people. And your post seemed to be lacking in reverse racism that comes from minorities NATIONWIDE. The only racism I’ve ever experienced has been from minorities. That many people have said racist things towards you? Well, I’m white, and I’ve had the same experience of being called a “dirty cracker” and a “gringo” plenty of times, and you don’t see me using other racist slogans in return to the minorities who called me that (after all, why stoop to their level?) I won’t even bother debating Chicago with you, as you lost credibility with your whiny, absurd, racist accusing post of many Chicagoans.
Back on topic, whatever. Name calling or not, that shouldn’t be an issue here. DarcsFalcon, if you looked at other people’s responses to me, they did the same thing I did…. attack, attack, attack. I truly don’t care, and don’t know why I’ve been making an issue of it. It’s just that it bothers me that some of the accusations against Chicagoans on this board are so mind blowingly wrong and crude.
You all are certainly in a minority….I’ve never seen so many people on a website post such nasty things about a city and it’s people before. People won’t likely listen to what you have to say when considering to move (I agree with you on that DarcsFalcon), as I would definately blow off a site identicle to this, even if I was thinking of moving to Phoenix and the website was called “why I think Phoenix Sucks”.
One last thing. Do all of you actually live IN Chicago, or do you live in the area? If you live in the suburbs, then your credibility just got cut in half, right there. If you grew up in Chicago, your credibility just got diminished by another half… of course you want to leave where you grew up! If you’ve never lived in Chicago and just think it sucks because it’s in the Midwest… you have no credibility.
Chicago isn’t going anywhere. I just found this website on the census bureau that says Chicago gained over 8,000 people this year.
The info is under “table 3″. The area is booming at a pace faster than both LA’s and NYC’s. Look at the suburbs of Chicago that are on the “fastest growing cities” list. Chicago must be doing something right.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 13, 2008 at 10:52 pm edit
Franktown – ”DarcsFalcon, if you looked at other people’s responses to me, they did the same thing I did…. attack, attack, attack.”
I did look Frank. I didn’t see anyone attacking you. In fact, RealR was pretty cordial, even going so far as to say you might IRL, be a great guy to be around. What I DO see is you admitting here to attacking people, and then getting upset and claiming they did it back to you. (So, it’s ok for you but not for them? That’s how we define hypocrisy, Frank.) I haven’t found that to be the case, frankly. I also see that you’re basically calling me and everyone else here a liar, accusing us of being “mind blowingly wrong and crude.” Sorry Frank, if the things we’ve experienced offend you. They offend us too, which is why we’re here. And just because YOU don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not true. Your feelings don’t dictate our reality.
And what do you care where any of us live, Frank, you never felt we had any credibility anyway.
Now, I’ve been patient and cordial with you Frank, despite the fact that you blustered in here, KNOWING what my post was about. And since the only way to find my post is to specifically LOOK for “Chicago sucks”, I can only believe you came here the same way, only you came looking for a fight. We’ve all told you this is our venting place and asked that you respect that. You haven’t. You keep coming back and calling us liars, telling us we say nasty things, berating us, and are generally insulting. This is MY house Frank, I make the rules here, NOT you. My friends call me Queen V for a reason, and Castle Doctrine applies.
It’s been a place that like-minded people have come to, to vent their feelings about what they’ve dealt with. You are not like-minded. You came with the deliberate intention of being a troll. And really Frank, your behavior only typifies the kind of thing we’ve dealt with, so you’re basically only proving our point – that people in Chicago have a general tendency to be rude and insulting. You’ve crossed my good nature too often here Frank and so I’m showing you the door. Thank you for coming. It’s been real, it’s been fun, but it’s not been real fun. If you can’t come back with a change in attitude and an apology to my guests here, then please don’t come back. If you feel you have more to say, you can go here —-> http://www.wordpress.com and make your own blog. You can praise Chicago to the skies, and call us whatever names your heart desires and do that knowing we won’t be crashing YOUR party, or checking to make sure that YOUR blog is “balanced.” That’s the difference between you and us Frank; we generally do NOT like to be where we’re not wanted and won’t try to force our way in. So, thank you for your time, and concern, but if you won’t be courteous and apologetic, please don’t come back.
Oh, and just an FYI, WordPress does have a blacklist feature. I’d appreciate not having to resort to it, thank you.
July 14, 2008 at 12:23 am edit
Just a note to Franktown, he mentioned Chicago gained 8000 in the past year, however based on his own statistical information Chicago has lost a population of 60,000 since 7/00. Also of note Houston Tx was 1,000,000 behind Chicago as of the beginning of the decade. Franktown’s latest stats from the Census bureau show Houston now at 2.2 Million only 600,000 people a difference of 400,000 in Houstons favor since 2000. Based on this information Houston could conceviably pass Chicago in the number 3 position in time for those 2016 Daley Olympics! Have that with your Celery salt, onions, peppers and whatever other shit Chicagoans throw on there Hot dogs!!!
Raga6 Says:
July 14, 2008 at 12:34 am edit
That’s why Houston rocks! PistolPete just made my day. I flew in and out of Chicago once and I saw enough to know that I would NEVER want to live there.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 14, 2008 at 12:43 am edit
Pete – psst, the neon green relish! You can’t forget that relish! ;)
And thanks for making my good friend Raga’s day! D
J.R. Says:
July 14, 2008 at 12:51 am edit
I just don’t understand how he can question my balls being on my body and accuse everyone of attacking him. Then I get the usual “you need to be tough” to live in Chicago rehearsed lines. How about making improvements?, thats sounds pretty tough to me. And despite what people may think, I WANT CHICAGO TO DO WELL. Plus Franktown dodged all of my questions.
And the “Chicago sucks” is a very rare opinion. We are the minority, BY FAR. My beef with the place is the Franktown attitude of “Deal with it” and “grow a pair.” Sounds like Daley at a press conference when asked about the CTA–”I don’t know, I don’t know.”
And the reason I still talk about the place is because nearly ALL of my family lives here. Far from being the worst city, but could be much better if people wanted better for it. pulling an all nighter finishing a paper then heading back to Cincy tomorrow.
moving to Chicago Says:
July 14, 2008 at 1:14 am edit
I’ve been researching Chicago quite a bit. I’m moving to Chicago for my job and my wife has already found a job which will hopefully make the transition easier. My wife and I are very nervous, but also very excited. I was a little unnerved when I first found this website, but then I read a fair amount of posts. Many sound rather insane or at the very least silly. From what I’ve read, the generalizations and insults being made about the city and its inhabitants make it very difficult for me to take anyone here very seriously. I suppose it’s a sort of compliment to Chicago that so many people would spend so much time to discuss a city they dislike. I do find a little reassurance in the fact that if ignorant people hate such a city then Chicago must be doing something right. Reminds a lot of the ignorant views aired by many Canadians regarding Toronto.
J.R. Says:
July 14, 2008 at 1:18 am edit
And Franktown– you are welcome to come debate me on this on my blog. I really don’t care too much about personal attacks from anyone who lives in Cook County because really the Bill Of Rights doesn’t really apply for some reason in that county. I feel bad for YOU.
And for some reason I have an inkling that you are not from Chicago. Hmm Michigan, Ohio? Although your attack on the suburbs as being somehow foreign to the city sounds like someone who hasn’t been out of the County for a while. Just like my friends from High School that didn’t know they were driving on the Eisenhower because they never leave the city–I’m not making that up.
I’ve been called every name under the sun and I assure you I can offend you much more than you can offend me. But if you want to be objective in your arguments at least, you are welcome on my blog.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 14, 2008 at 1:23 am edit
JR – I didn’t get that part either. Not liking the cold makes you a wimp? Well, it wouldn’t surprise me if he just moved here this past Spring and hasn’t even lived here in the Winter. Even “tough, lived here all their lives Chicagoans” will come in on a Winter’s day and say, “Damn! I froze my balls off out there!” I’ve NEVER met a native who disagrees about the weather!
And I re-read all the comments that were responses to him and I didn’t see anyone attacking him. If I had, I would have called them on it. What I saw was a lot of folks who felt very defensive, and that pissed me off. I wanted this place to be like a safe-haven kind of thing from all that bullshit. We get it enough from out there, I don’t want it in here too, you know? I don’t want to be a bitch or anything, but it should be pretty clear from the “If you like Chicago, please go to these links …” I put in my post.
And I think making those improvements you mentioned is a lot tougher than we thought! After-all, no one’s been tough enough to do it yet! ;)
Yes, we are in the minority – that’s why I said that we don’t “need” balance, we ARE the balance. We’re the only counter to all the rah-rah Chicago crap that goes on. I don’t expect anyone to take us seriously – but I DO want the people who comment here to know that I take them seriously. It has meant so much to me to have people tell me that they’re so happy and relieved to find that post, so they can finally have a chance to vent.
Deal with it and grow a pair? Well let’s see – I’ve been dealing with it for 30 years, and I’ve grown a pair of boobs – how’s that? I think I’ve done my part! ;)
I hope you had a blast at the wedding hon! Try to get some sleep on the bus and ace that paper!
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 14, 2008 at 2:18 am edit
“Moving” – I’ve been doing some research too! Congratulations on your move! Lucky for you, Elgin isn’t that far from Chicago, only 40 miles or so. And I’m so pleased that you thought enough of my blog to visit twice in 3 hours, and that you searched specifically for “Chicago sucks”, since that’s the only search that’s come up in my search terms so far. I’m honored! ) I have a buddy in Skokie, named Frank, and I’m sure he’d be more than happy to show you some sights around the city and all kinds of fun things to do. I’m sure you and he will get along famously! You sound like you already have so much in common. ) Perhaps you’ve met already?
I’m sure you’ll get along wonderfully in Chicago – it sounds like JUST your kind of city. D
realr Says:
July 14, 2008 at 7:51 am edit
I also don’t think you lived in those cities you mentioned, I HAVE lived elsewhere and never ever experienced as vile. racist, childlike, and proudly ignorant (used my another visitor to this city), other than Chicago.
Talk about wining, look in the mirror, you post trying to justify the most unjustifiable subjects imaginable; and you post over and over again, this tells me your character right there, this is all I need to know. I actually did a search, and found on some other sites with almost identical postings like yours, either it is you posting the same shit on other boards, or no one in this city things differently. You know they can raise the tax rate here to 25% and you so called tough guys would bow your head and quietly mutter “ok, you can raise it”, meanwhile you’d complain to yourself, but not to the people (votes, petitions) that matter. Yes, you are nothing but complacent, il-mannered, racist people who show no respect for others. You are nothing but sheeple, that’s all you are.
I tried to be civil to you, but you decided not to be, being this is Chicago, and your approval of the vile racist subjects I mentioned, I expect nothing else. We’re done here.
Also, to anyone else on this board, Franktown is a troll, as the old internet adage does “Don’t feed the trolls”.
realr Says:
July 14, 2008 at 8:12 am edit
See Dars, regarding your response to “Moving”, I was going to say how many people posting with no registration are trolls or the same people (Franktown anyone) using different names.
BTW, Franktown will justify religious racism (my skin is white BTW), by saying redneck is racism, when it is not by definition.
Again, this is the only city I have lived in, both smaller and bigger than Chicago, that justifies this as being all right, this tells me the quality of his character right there.
Anyway, I have things I have to do, so I won’t be on here for awhile, my move across country. I am sure Franktown will come back and say “get the fuck out”, but I really don’t have time to feed the trolls right now.
You handled it well Dars, good for you.
John Stylus Says:
July 14, 2008 at 1:56 pm edit
OP is right on the money. I’ve lived in or around this shithole city for my whole life and I wish I could get the hell outta here but my parents are still alive so I’m stuck here for now.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 14, 2008 at 10:50 pm edit
RealR – I agree with you that redneck is not a racist term. It is considered slightly derogatory, but not racist. I suspect the only ones who find it to be racist are the ones that get called rednecks who aren’t from the south. Frank is probably such a one. You are right – he and his friend (moving on) revealed their troll characters, big time. I am thinking of going through their comments and putting “CAUTION – Troll Alert!” on them all.
Yes, you are a busy man and have a lot to do. I will miss you and your insightful comments, but I hope you come back as soon as you are able. Have a safe, happy, and uneventful move!
And thank you so much for your support and the kind things you said. *hug*
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 14, 2008 at 10:55 pm edit
John – Thank you for stopping by and for the nice things you said. ) I hope though, that you will manage to find your way out of the city without having to wait for your parents to die. Or maybe they would go with you? Even if you can’t, we all have reasons why we’re stuck here, so we can relate. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. And if you need to vent, you’re welcome here. )
franktown Says:
July 14, 2008 at 11:48 pm edit
I love trolls, don’t you? They give a little spice to the page, come on! )
If I’m truly not welcome here, I’ll leave. I didn’t know I was bothering you so much Darcness, why didn’t you say so from the get-go?
Vent all you want about Chicago, or whatever other city you want. And thanks for the invite on starting my own blog, I think I’ll take you up on that offer! However, I will extend my invitation out to YOU to come visit, and challenge anything I say, in ANY way you want. But, you won’t here me complaining about a city. More like politics, which me and you probably won’t have to many disagreements on, since you are a conservative, and I’m a moderate.
Chicago will always hold a place in my heart, and most people’s hearts. I’m sad that you guys won’t ever get to experience the Chicago everyone else has.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 15, 2008 at 12:13 am edit
Franktown – did you see my front page post about trolls today? That will give you an indication of how I feel about them.
As for you being welcome here, that depends on your behavior. If you can’t keep a civil tongue in your head, then no, you won’t be welcome. As far as this post though (or any of my posts for that matter), I won’t put up with you being rude to any of the other commentors. (And I still expect an apology from you to them, btw) You have your opinion, and that’s fine, but this isn’t the place to express it. Going to other people’s blogs to start fights, be insulting, and generally disruptive, is not acceptable. I wouldn’t do it on your blog, and I’m not going to allow you to do it on mine. As long as you can follow Falcon’s rules, we won’t have a problem and you’ll be welcome. Deal?
Franktown Says:
July 16, 2008 at 11:16 am edit
Wow Dars, I am sorry I know I am a typical Chicagoan troll. You see der (damn Chicago accent getting in da way again)–I meant there, all my life I have tried to be tough, but really I am a little complaining bitch.
I tried to get me job der—damn Chicago public skool sestem—but all I could get was cleaning the stalls at KFC.
All the people in new york and cali, I know calli- we in shitcago use 15 year old terms, and everywhere else get all the good jobs. I am too scared to go anywhere else, although went to oak park once, man I was so scared to be so far away, I pissed my pants down der.
Hey, Daley is great, he ass fucks us with taxes and a gun ban but crime is still high, wow, I am so scared shitless, unless I post on the internets der, then I am a togh guy.
I will see you later Darsfalcon, I have to pick up some Old Style and some undercooked hotdogs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Okay – This isn’t the “real” Franktown, and no one gets to mock Frank here but me. I know it feels good, but please refrain. Thank you. The Falcon.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J Says:
July 16, 2008 at 12:27 pm edit
J Says:
July 16, 2008 at 12:51 pm edit
Chicago sucks, period. It’s boring as shit, crime & murder infested, ran down & unopportunistic. So just fucking Get over it- all you that are in denial.
Here’s a few PERFECT reasons why:
. Weather sucks.
. Boring
. non-evoloving- since I was like 8 yrs old, there’s NOTHING new in Chicago to do/go. Oh that’s right- that half a block long shitground known as “Millemium park”
. Fattest fuckers on earth- and TONS of them.
. Arrogant, fat, tired ass women.
. Everyone is a “thug”
. Everyone is a “gangbanger”
. Highest taxes known to man.
. Don’t forget to get your city winshield sticker (WTF?!?!?)
. Abrasively violent.
. DEAD nightlife.
. Road construction literally everywhere.
. Some of the most brain dead people in existence reside in chicago.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 16, 2008 at 1:31 pm edit
J – Thanks for stopping by. I see you’ve made some distinct observations about Chicago, but … can you tell us how you really feel? ;)
Ah yes, the windshield stickers. Residential parking permits. You must have permission to park in your own driveway, on the street in front of your own house. Many of the suburbs do this too. So much for “freedom”!
J.R. Says:
July 16, 2008 at 4:28 pm edit
Classic J, lol!
franktown Says:
July 17, 2008 at 1:14 am edit
Hey, Dars, come visit my blog, it’s an open invite!
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 17, 2008 at 1:33 am edit
Franktown – I would, but I don’t have a link or a URL. ?? Help a girl out here, dude!
franktown Says:
July 17, 2008 at 1:51 am edit
I don’t know why it’s not working.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 17, 2008 at 1:59 am edit
Thanks ) You have to link it in your settings somewhere. The forums can help you with pretty much any question about wordpress or blogging you could ever have.
Going to check out your blog – find out all your evil little secrets, heheheh! ;)
Oh, and glad to see you’re using your real email when you post now – thank you. )
franktown Says:
July 17, 2008 at 2:13 am edit
No prob —- i think we’ve settled our truce now, huh??? Haha.
Sorry for the misinformation at first, I’m actually 21. But I DO know Chicago, like I said before.
Now I’ll be a good boy and not insult your guests…. i’ll leave that to my space in case they decide to pop me a little visit )
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 17, 2008 at 2:24 am edit
Franktown – Truce. )
Ah, Frankie – you didn’t actually believe that anyone believed you, right? ;) And I know you believe you know Chicago. But please keep in mind, you’ve only lived here 5 years or so – and under your parents roof. You’ve never dealt with a majority of the crap that the adults have dealt with for decades. You are still young and excited and enthralled with “nightlife” and things like that. And that’s fine – that’s how it should be. But when paying for those things starts coming out of your own pocket, after working a 40-60 hour work week, commuting 20 hours a week on the train, your tune will be different. I promise.
And thank you for not insulting my guests. And if you want them to pop over to your place, you be nice if you want them to come back. ;)
J.R. Says:
July 17, 2008 at 3:58 am edit
Franktown, dude, the eyes are going to have to go seriously. Like nightmare city man.
Why Franktown Is Lucky Enough To Join My Blogroll « Chicago Withdrawal Says:
July 18, 2008 at 3:37 am edit
[…] Franktown initially challenged my balls in Darcsfalcons’ near famous post, Why I Think Chicago Sucks and #2 when you Google “Chicago sucks” in Google search, I have found that he is […]
phx-to-chi Says:
July 18, 2008 at 3:57 pm edit
Just curious if there is any real substance on this blog and factual information on the dislike of Chicago? I’ve lived in my fair share of places but just recently enjoyed a nice weekend in Chicago. You bitch about it being hot but it’s really not that bad. Of course I live in Phoenix right now and you all just don’t even know what hot is. I see a lot of bad arguments here but I dont see a single suggestion for a better place to live. Here is what I see in the city:
– A city that supports it’s sports teams more than anywhere else. (went to wrigley while I was there)
– A vibrant urban core and a renewed interest in growing the downtown area that is actually gaining ground. In Phoenix you won’t see anyone downtown after 5pm on weeknights if there isn’t a game going on. In Chicago I couldn’t even tell you if there was a game going on because there was so much other stuff to do.
– I found the weather to be hot but much more tolerable to walking and public transit than the desert.
I researched quite a few condos on the north side of town there were very reasonable for the 3rd largest city/metro area in the country.
– The job market was not the best but I see a much greater number of corporate headquarters than most cities. I also see the abilty for the city to attract top employers (such as millercoors brewing).
– I say this coming from Phoenix, a city that rarely is considered for a new or moving corporate headquarters.
– I had a chance to visit musems in Chicago that rivaled LA, San Fran, Seattle, Boston and NYC. Not sure where the complaints come from about culture. The travelling exhibits I saw were visiting all of the world’s top cities and Chicago was one of them.
– Performing arts is not my fortay but it seemed prevelent and available for those who are into that.
I’m sure the roads are terrible and taxes are high but you here that no matter where you live. Just becuase the taxes are now .05% higher or whatever is than the next lowest city doesnt really mean anything.
What substance driven arguments do you have? To me I see a multi cultural, diverse, sports oriented and cosmopolitan city. What do you all want in a city? Is it just good weather and better paved roads?
I come on here not to bash Chicago or not becuse I hate Chciago but to try and understand what the worst of the worst is there. I’ve lived in a lot of places but never the Midwest. Before any move I try to do some research and find out what the biggest complaints about a place are and put my own opinions and judgements to that.
What I’ve learned by reading this blog so far is:
– I need to visit in the winter.
– Dont live by the red line (sounds like it sucks)
– Roads are bad. (I don’t plan on taking a car there)
– Taxes are high (I don’t complain about things I can’t control)
– The weather sucks all but 2 months (funny people say the same thing in Phoenix and we are mainly known for good weather).
– Crime, Real Estate and Jobs are bad: Wake Up!!! So is the rest of the country. Name 1 large city that isn’t going through the same thing. The city of Phoenix is broke. Were now officially considering gambling in the city limits to raise money…
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 19, 2008 at 2:02 am edit
PHX – I don’t know – probably as much substance as there is in your comment? Define substance. I put links in to substantiate many of my comments, and if you want more, you can check out my Anti-Chicago page.
The past couple of weeks the weather has been decent, sure. It’s not too bad in June. You were fortunate that it was that way for your visit. Come back in August. It’s the combination of heat and humidity that’s oppressive. No doubt about it, Phoenix gets hot, but I think it may be safe to say that you don’t know what cold is. Do you like sunshine? Chicago has 84 sunny days a year. The other 281 are cloudy. Seven sunny days a month. If you like clouds, this is the place for you.
So MillerCoors is coming. Only because they couldn’t choose between Milwaukee and Golden. One company doesn’t make this a corporate headquarters haven. Many businesses are also leaving in droves because the taxes are so high and they can get better deals elsewhere. The 3-400 jobs that Miller might bring won’t make up for the 2500 lost by the BofA cuts. And there is negative growth in the computer tech industry.
What you saw in a weekend, PHX, doesn’t take into account what most of us have been dealing with for years. You didn’t deal with the nuts and bolts of living here. Once you’ve dealt with the freezing cold, the mass transit headaches, the people pushing you out of their way so they can get on the train before you, you may not find it so pleasant. I could be wrong, but that’s my suspicion.
Oh, and gambling? Daley’s been trying to get casinos here for years. He’s not satisfied with the riverboat casinos, he wants the same kind of thing that Atlantic City and Vegas have.
And yeah, I can name one city in which real estate and job opportunities are booming like gangbusters – try Houston. And their crime rate isn’t as bad as ours either. You can go to cityrating.com and find out lots of neat information.
It’s good to keep an open mind, PHX. But you also need to remember to respect the opinions of those who’ve had more experience with something than you have. Plus, at the top of the page, I mentioned that these are the reasons why I think Chicago Sucks. It just so happens that a lot of folks agree with me.
Thanks for stopping by, and let me know how that winter visit goes. ;)
phx-to-chi Says:
July 19, 2008 at 6:53 am edit
That’s cool I respect everyone’s opinons… and I did read everything on this blog to date. I see a lot of talk about weather, taxes, and crime. Yes, your right I haven’t lived there but I have in Detroit. So I do know just what cold is been in 20 below + many a times. I’ve also lived in Salt Lake doesnt get quite as extreme and at least there they have something to do in the snow. )
I have friends just North of Houston that hate it as much as you hate Chicago. They can’t sell their house for more than they owe on it or they’d leave in a heart beat. They miss seasons and they’re sick of the damn heat. <– Their words not mine. I’ve only been there once and it I can attest to their heat as well but other than that don’t know much about the region other than it’s flat, and it’s GW’s turf. So I stay away from Texas. Except Austin which is a great place just too small for the types of career opportunities I’m looking for at this point.
We’ll thanks for your info. Like I said before I’m being open minded about Chicago. I saw a lot of great things on my visit but I don’t know for sure that I’m ready to give up the sun belt lifestyle. I can see public transit getting old after a while and certainly jumping in my pool after thanksgiving dinner every year is well, something I’m thankful for. But Phoenix leaves a lot to be desired and could certainly take from some of the good things in Chicago mainly their downtown and at least having an option for public transit. Phoenix has only been a big city for 20-30 years so the growth came fast and the infastructure to support it is just taking forever to catch up. All you hear around here is soon we’ll have musems like chicago just wait. Or soon we’ll get culture like LA/NY.
But I know this isn’t a I Hate Phoenix forum. I’ll keep checking in with everyone. God knows I don’t want to make a mistake moving somewhere I hate. The I Love Chicago places like to overlook or downgrade the importance of weather and mountains. Don’t know if I can buy into that after being spoiled by lakes, rivers, mountains, skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking now.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 20, 2008 at 1:19 am edit
PHX – I have a friend in Houston too, and she loves it. I’d be more like your friends – I want the 4 seasons and I hate the heat too. (Chicago only has 2 season, btw!)
I have read online that the best place for yuppies is San Francisco, followed by Minneapolis, Houston, NY, and Boston. Forbes Article Having grown up there, in SF, I can tell you that the things you’re looking for – the rivers, mountains, etc, are within a short hike. I’ve lived in NY too, but it’s probably too cold for you, as would be Boston and Minneapolis. Good luck with your search, and thanks for coming back. Let me know how it goes!
Blogging Addiction « DarcKnyt Says:
July 20, 2008 at 1:39 am edit
[…] is in the first place. She posts so much randomness and variety it’s amazing, and her “Chicago Sucks” post and resultant “Anti-Chicago” page are pretty popular ’round the […]
franktown Says:
July 20, 2008 at 9:44 pm edit
Ness, I believe that article complimented Chicago in mentioning that it performed well for professionals and hosted good companies.
Don’t use that as a source because it makes you unreliable!!! P
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 20, 2008 at 9:59 pm edit
Frank – Chicago’s not in the top 5. P There is negative growth in the financial and computer industries in Chicago. Neener! ;)
phx-to-chi Says:
July 21, 2008 at 10:53 am edit
I can handle the cold if I have to. I’ve done it more of my life than I’ve lived in warm places. But I wouldn’t chose to if it didn’t make sense for a career, a nice urban area to live/work/play in without having to drive all the time, and other professionals to congregate with. SF was on my radar so I’ll spend some time there and see what I think for myself. From what I’ve been told their public transit is manageable and if you live far enough east you can get out of the fog layer each morning.
J.R. Says:
July 21, 2008 at 5:50 pm edit
I don’t think the cold bothers me as much as the people. I don’t mind freezing when I’m in rural Wisconsin because the people are so neighborly and friendly. but more on that in a future post when i have a little more time this week and I’m back in Ohio.
One thing I may have around Chicago that many don’t is nearly all of my family is there so thats a big plus for me in putting up with all the garbage. I was driving back from Wisconsin to Illinois today and looking at all the ###### infrastructure and I told my Dad, “how do you live in this State?” and he said “I don’t know”, lol.
but I don’t want to complain, just my opinion. Lately, the rural country is looking pretty attractive to live in.
Bob Babushka Says:
July 21, 2008 at 10:36 pm edit
yeah, chicago sucks. all these gangstas and troublue making thug boys make this a real shit hole.
franktown Says:
July 21, 2008 at 10:49 pm edit
I’m still waiting on that Olympic news… oh well, I guess I’ll just have to wait until Beijing’s finished!
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 21, 2008 at 11:31 pm edit
PHX – BART is pretty manageable, and my understanding is they are trying to keep up with it, as far as adding new stops and such. The fog – are you talking the tulley fog or the fog coming off the ocean? Either way, just drive slow and put your fog lights on. To me, it’s not nearly as hard as driving in snow. ;)
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 21, 2008 at 11:35 pm edit
JR – I love the rural places! So peaceful and quiet! And you’re 100% right – the people – anywhere – can make or break a city. If the people around Chicago were friendlier it’d be a lot more bearable around here. Not that there aren’t some nice folks, but those are the exceptions and not the rule, sadly. That’s why they stand out like the real gems they are.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 21, 2008 at 11:41 pm edit
Bob – for some reason, some people seem to think that gangstas and thugs make good friends and neighbors. Like you, I think it makes for a really crappy place to live.
Thanks for visiting!
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 21, 2008 at 11:43 pm edit
Frank – I have no idea when the Olympic Committee is supposed to release their decision. Next year maybe? 2010? You could probably google it and find out.
phx-to-chi Says:
July 22, 2008 at 6:18 pm edit
Well all thanks for the info. I’ll check back often to see how everyone is doing with getting out of Chicago and I will go ahead and take that one off my list of diserable places to relocate too. It does appear I found a place that will work much better so I’ll check out some of the suggestions on here. it does make me really understand the whole grass is greener on the other side thing. While the grass is probably greener in Chicago than AZ it sounds like the problems are MUCH worse. I hope they can turn it around I would hate to see Chicago get as bad as Detroit in terms of the number of empty and burned down houses. I do appreciate good architecture even if it is only to visit it on ocassion. )
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 22, 2008 at 6:27 pm edit
PHX – Please keep checking in and let us know how you’re doing in your quest. It’s always nice to hear when people find what they’re looking for. )
I think almost everyone here hopes Chicago can turn things around too. That’s probably our biggest gripe – that things are fixable and yet remain broken. And the architecture probably won’t go anywhere (but one never knows with Daley in charge!) so whenever you feel like a visit, you can still enjoy it. Oh, and the best months for visits, weather-wise, are mid-May to mid-June, and September. In my opinion. ) Best of luck in your search!
Darcs sucks Says:
July 22, 2008 at 6:35 pm edit
DarcsFalcon’s incessant complaining and baseless arguments are just pitiful. Why doesn’t she just try living somewhere else? Oh right she’s heard that a million times, its just too scary for her. That makes her a loser. DarcsFalcon, do you even live in the city of Chicago? Of the 10 million people in metro Chicago, where do you live?
DarcsFalcon SUCKS! here’s why:
-Her arguments make no sense, stereotyping a city to fit her view doesn’t make for good arguments, it just makes her a judgmental moron.
-It’s not wrong that she is extremely socially conservative, its disturbing that she wants all others to live and think as she does
-She has no empathy for those struggling below the poverty line, hey not everyone is as fortunate as you
-She hates immigrants
-she hates those that disagree with her
-She hates diversity, both economically and socially
-She doesn’t understand a thing about the city or metro economy
franktown Says:
July 22, 2008 at 7:43 pm edit
Ness, I swear that wasn’t me who just posted that!
J.R. Says:
July 22, 2008 at 8:01 pm edit
Real creative with the name “Darcs sucks.” How about posting your real name if you are going to be so creative with insulting people?
Do you live in Chicago? Did you move here from Indiana or Michigan or Ohio? Pretty standard throwing bombs and running away. At least Franktown owned up and actually has a blog.
Your arguments are childish and not based on any facts. Sound like a typical Illinois liberal. Pretending to be Mr. Empathy for the poor. I think anyone would agree you are a fool, even very pro-Chicagoans like Franktown.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 22, 2008 at 8:57 pm edit
Sucks – How cute! You tried to name yourself after me! And even in your fake email address too! What a compliment! Thank you! You know what they say – imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!
One wonders, Sucks, if you sent a letter to Forbes too, when they wrote their article listing Chicago as one of the Top 10 Most Miserable Cities? No? I must be special to you then. ) Now make sure you visit the other 8 million Google hits for “Chicago sucks” and be sure to share your assumptions with them too. (because we both know that’s how you found MY blog!)
If you’re willing to pay my moving expenses, Sucks, believe me, Chicago’s door wouldn’t hit me in the ass on the way out. Scared of moving? Dude! I’ve moved 2 dozen times in my life! I’m a pro at it now and it doesn’t scare me in the least! Oh, and just so you know, there’s not quite 3 million people in metro Chicago, not 10 – you’d have to be counting the suburbs to get to that number, and yes, I’ve lived here probably longer than you’ve been alive.
I would think that going to Loyola would have taught you that when making an argument, it’s helpful to have some kind of evidence to support your opinion. You’ve failed in that regard. You’ve made a LOT of assumptions but haven’t substantiated a single thing. (And in doing so, you prove the point of most of the commenters here regarding the attitude of Chicagoans in general.) I put links in my original post (and the other Chicago ones I’ve put up since) to back up my opinion. I know not everyone agrees with me – that’s why I have MY blog and they have THEIRS. THIS particular post has become a forum of sorts for people who don’t like it here and if that bothers you, there’s the door —>>http://www.wordpress.com. Do I want everyone to live and think like I do? Now what fun would that be? You know what’s funny though? I don’t go to other people’s blogs and call them names and insult them just because they don’t agree with me. Too bad you can’t say the same, Sucks. It would seem that conservative me is a LOT more tolerant than liberal you.
And I have no empathy for people struggling with poverty? Now where the hell did you get that? I’ve been homeless during my lifetime and if there’s anyone high on my empathy list, it’s homeless people and those struggling with poverty! See? You really made an ass out of yourself with that assumption. Me? Fortunate? ROFLMFAO!!! Oh, Sucks, you have NO clue! Put your dress down dude, your ignorance is showing!
Where did I say I hated immigrants? There you go again with the assumptions. I don’t support illegal immigration, but I fully advocate for those who come to the US legally. I’ve even posted the Oath of Allegiance for Naturalized Citizens on my blog!
As for diversity, there you go again with the assumptions and no facts to support your claims. Although now that you mention it, I probably don’t support economic diversity all that much, because I wish everyone could be rich.
Don’t understand anything about the city or the “metro” economy? OH! NOW I know who you are! You must be the guy on the Chicago board who voted to raise all the taxes! I do know this, Sucks – the outgo can’t surpass the income, or there will be problems, and I know that there are lots of people on the city payroll who aren’t entitled to the income they’re getting from the city. I can only assume, from your tone and your anonymity, that you are probably one of those.
Really Sucks, what’s pissed you off the most? Be honest now, because I know it’s not really anything about Chicago. Even Chicagoans hate the weather and taxes. Was it reading that I’m Christian? Republican? Conservative? Straight? Something in you had a knee-jerk response to make you react as rudely as you have. Whatever it is Sucks, we can talk about it, when you’re not in attack mode.
ps – I wonder how the administration folks over at Loyola would feel about your using school computers to post your venom?
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 22, 2008 at 9:01 pm edit
Frank – Don’t worry dude, I know. ) Never entered my mind. You’ve had your moments but you were never that rude and hostile to me. Well, maybe once. Sorta. ;)
But I hope you see something here Frank. This person’s attitude and tone is what many of my commenters have to deal with on a regular basis. You can admit that it makes Chicago and Chicagoans look bad, right? Can you see now why they’re so frustrated?
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 22, 2008 at 9:13 pm edit
JR – Thanks dude. ) *hug* I was reminded of the term you used on your blog today – FIBS. LOL A prime example, no? ;)
This is why Chicagoans look bad to other cities.
J.R. Says:
July 22, 2008 at 9:16 pm edit
yeah trying to do random posts doesn’t do too well anymore with the ip address tracker, lol. if you want to make it completely random you should try scrambling the address or sending it through some foreign ip address. Falcon definitely one upped you on that on!
franktown Says:
July 22, 2008 at 9:23 pm edit
Oh, baloney!
I don’t think that he/she who posted that makes Chicagoans look bad, they make themselves look bad. I tend to think that if that person truly was a Chicagoan, they’d act more like me: sophisticated and witty!!! Wouldn’t you agree???:P
What’s with the accusation of racism towards Ness by that person?? I agree with everything Ness said in her defense (except the Chicago bashing, but I digress).
I don’t know how she went from defending Chicago to immigration??? Wait, since when is being against illegal immigration racism???
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 22, 2008 at 9:47 pm edit
Frank – Swear to God dude, I knew at once it wasn’t you. And you were only kind of rude to me in your first post but after that you were pretty civil to me. I knew you’d never behave like this person has.
That’s true – they make themselves look bad – no question. And right now we don’t know if this person is a native or not. Right now I’m guessing not.
And not everyone can be as charming and witty as you Frank. ;) Not even other Chicagoans. P
And from the bottom of my heart, I thank you for sticking up for me. ) *hug*
Raga6 Says:
July 22, 2008 at 10:09 pm edit
Dear Darcs Sucks. What a clever name! Aren’t you just the smartest little guy out there! I’m not as classy as the rest of the bloggers so I’ll be blunt. You are a tool. How pathetic your life must be that you have to go create a fake email account to spew your bile. It’s must be sooo easy to throw those stones from way up on your high horse. Darc is perhaps too smart for you? It says in the beginning, that’s at the top, that this is a place for like minded people, that means people who think the same, to vent their frustrations. Also it was stated that while you are welcome to your opinion, this is not a place for debate so please take your deluded Chicago is great thoughts and go elsewhere.
Now I tried really hard to use small words for you so you don’t tax your brain cause Lord knows I don’t want you to think too hard and poop yourself.
Please in the future, that means later on from now, try to think before you post, you really haven’t accomplished much more that looking like a jackass.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 22, 2008 at 10:20 pm edit
Raga – Oh lovie! You crack me up! Thanks for your support – you know I love you for it! *tons o’ hugs!*
And who says you’re not classy??!! Stop that!
franktown Says:
July 22, 2008 at 10:21 pm edit
Ness, I was saying baloney to you comments on how that person made Chicagoans look bad.
You think I’m that much of a drama queen??? ha
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 22, 2008 at 11:36 pm edit
Frank – they tried to defend Chicago by attacking me. That’s pretty typical of the kind of behavior most people see from Chicagoans.
Drama queen? You? Perish the thought dude!
J.R. Says:
July 23, 2008 at 7:43 pm edit
Darcs sucks is steppin’ on evvvvvvvvvrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrbody jays!
J.R. Says:
July 23, 2008 at 7:44 pm edit
i hate when people be scuffin’ up my jays
July 24, 2008 at 12:17 am edit
Back to the main topic, I see a lot of folks who judge Chicago by the antiseptic downtown area- which except for a few homeless (mainly blacks) panhandling is built for toursits, college students, and suburban business folks taking Metra into town daily. There;s no real street action downtown like large Eastern cities- No newspaper stands, pizza parlors to speak of, hot dog stands, street vendors (except a few at museums). The other wrong judgement made is Chicago is clean by the media and tourists. If you get out of the downtown and Gold coast areas to Ashland and Western Ave and beyond, there’s garbage all over the streets. Overflowing garbage cans. Low class slobs disposing of food and glass and cans on the ground etc. Then you have the CTA quite quaint for loop tourists but shitty outside downtown (except for the Midway line which is new and excellent). The Division St subway station is like being in a sewer. About the people, I am originally from the East coast and lived in California and I havent figured out why people in this part of the world lack PERSONALITY. Not all but a good portion do. Just ask an East Coast or California person when they come to Chicago. I call it Charisma bypass. Anyway, the weather’s been nice this week so let’s count our blessings for a lower air conditioning bill after paying high heat bills after this winters brutal onslaught. God bless.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 24, 2008 at 2:43 am edit
Pete! Good to see you again! I have to agree – it’s like only the “touristy” areas are kept clean and maintained. The rest of the city – man, going in on the train is so depressing! Everything gets so dirty and dank looking.
I was ROFL at that “charisma bypass” line! And yes, the weather has been actually quite nice for July. I can’t recall the last time it was this nice this far into the summer. Scares me for August though! I’m afraid it’ll all catch up with us at once!
God Bless you too. )
J.R. Says:
July 24, 2008 at 6:17 pm edit
yeah, i’ve figured out that illinois is one of the worst of the 50 states. Charisma bypass, more like any sort of anything good bypass. The state is basically a bunch of republican and democratic mobsters stuck in the 20s, glad i’m never moving that that state again.
I can’t imagine how all of you that are born elsewhere feel. I didn’t know all states dont behave the way Illinois does until i got out. thank God, now i have to de-chicago illinoisize– which is very difficult.
franktown Says:
July 24, 2008 at 6:21 pm edit
Well, dag nammit, I’m going to open the first ever hot dog stand AND newspaper stand in downtown Chicago!!
Ness, you serve the dogs and I’ll cook ‘em, J.R – you take out the trash!
J.R. Says:
July 24, 2008 at 6:44 pm edit
I’d have to start by taking you out Franktown
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 24, 2008 at 11:47 pm edit
Frank – you know I’m puttin’ ketchup on those hot dogs dude!
JR – it’s frustrating as all get out. All the places I’ve lived, and seen, to know that it doesn’t have to be like it is in IL, is aggravating, to say the least.
New Yorker Says:
July 25, 2008 at 3:59 am edit
Chicago is a Ghetto, Chicago is not cleaner than New York beacuse the Chicago water supply is filthy and the Ghetto is to. the only clean part of Chicago is the Downtown area. Chicagoans have some egos
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 25, 2008 at 12:18 pm edit
New Yorker – There are many here who feel the same way you do. When was the last time you visited Chicago? I can see it made an impression! lol ;)
Thanks for stopping by my page! Hope to see you again. )
franktown Says:
July 25, 2008 at 8:37 pm edit
I love New York!!!!!
But Chicago is still my homeboy!!!
July 25, 2008 at 9:04 pm edit
Good example in todays Sun Times of Chicago’s provicialism. Rick Telander in today’s sports section compared the Chicago to the Boston Red Sox and Ne w York Yankees with the following statement ” The Cubs make the Yankees magic and the Red Sox’s mojo look like parlor tricks”. Anotherwords, the Cubs are so much more popular and worth more than teams in Boston and New York. I immediate fired off an email to him with the following line ” people on the East Coast think about Chicago about as much as a rock fan thinks about katchagoogoo. Some of my friends there think Chicago is in Ohio!! Anyway y’all have a good weekend and enjoy the great weather.
best from Pistol Peter!
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 26, 2008 at 12:26 am edit
Pete – That’s just … oh man, I’m just speechless (almost! lol) at the audacity that anyone could say the Cubs are better than the BoSox! The team that hasn’t won a series in a century compared to the team that’s won 2 in the last couple of years? Who the hell does he think he’s kidding? I don’t even like baseball and I know that! What an arrogant POS that sportswriter is! Part and parcel of the kind of BS many Chicagoans spew to convince themselves that 2+2=5.
You have a great one too!
shitcagoan Says:
July 26, 2008 at 5:47 am edit
I’m leaving on August 15th! That’s 21 more days! I’m not trying to rub it in, I just want you to know that my fiance and I are far from wealthy, but we are escaping! You can do it too Darcs. I was just reading through this thread for the first time in weeks…MAN, people are really starting to get defensive. You are getting tons of posts too. I just wish the Chicago lovers would remember whatever it was that they were thinking when they googled, “chicago sucks.” To me, thats just more proof.
Austin was wonderful, San Diego was beautiful, Chicago was……………… TERRIBLE. I’ve been thinking really hard about what it is that makes me hate this city sooooo much. I’ve really enjoyed everywhere else I’ve lived. Nowhere is perfect, but nowhere is this bad. Anyway, sadly enough, it’s the people. They are ruining it. (that’s alot to say considering I’ve never lived in the North before, and cannot stand the winters).
PS I saw on yahoo that out of the ten most expensive US cities, Chicago was the only one on it that wasn’t coastal. Go figure.
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 26, 2008 at 1:09 pm edit
Shitcagoan – Good to see you again! Woo! Congratulations! How exciting for you and your sweetheart!
Yeah, we’re just waiting for that magic job offer that’s also willing to cover moving expenses. When that happens, we’re out of here.
Oh yes, are people getting defensive! Kind of funny to me, since – like you said – they had to google “Chicago sucks” to get here in the first place, so what were they expecting?
The people – that’s the theme I’ve noticed in so many of my visitors comments too. It IS sad.
I’d love to see that list of cities! And Chicagoans will tell you they DO have a coast – the Lake Michigan coast. As though the lake compared to an ocean. Sheesh! LOL
Good luck with your move – please keep in touch and let me know how you’re doing – it’s always so good to hear of someone making a good thing happen in their life. D
franktown Says:
July 28, 2008 at 6:00 pm edit
Well, i guess that means they’ll be less car off the kennedy expressway now.. thank for that shitcagoan
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 29, 2008 at 4:27 pm edit
Frank – But you don’t have a car, and don’t drive, so that makes no difference to you, right? ;)
franktown Says:
July 29, 2008 at 5:13 pm edit
What if I carpool? haha
DarcsFalcon Says:
July 29, 2008 at 5:24 pm edit
Then those you carpool with are doing more than their fair share of the driving. P
August 1, 2008 at 11:29 pm edit
Just got back from a picnic.. Why is it Chicagoans play softball with a big 16 inch mush ball and no glove .. ?? And if you play with a glove they think your wierd. I told some friends back east about this and they asked me “are those people idiots”…???
The answer to that question is obvious.
Have a great weekend from Pistol Pete. I have to say the weather this summer has been great, so all those stuck in the Windy City enjoy it while it lasts..
J.R. Says:
August 2, 2008 at 12:47 am edit
It has to do with history. People were historically too poor in Chicago to afford baseball mitts so they didn’t use them.
Personally once you have played without the mitt it is much better. My rationale, along with many others, is that if you have to play with a mitt, you might as well be playing baseball.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 2, 2008 at 1:41 am edit
Hey Pete! I don’t get the softball thing either – never did. There’s nothing soft about the balls, and why not just play baseball?
You have a great weekend too! The weather has been nice – getting hot now though, back to normal I suppose. )
JR – that’s why no gloves? Huh. Well there you go.
bigspeakers Says:
August 3, 2008 at 1:08 am edit
I was reading through some of this blog and thought I’d give my two cents. Sorry if I don’t post this in the correct format as I usually don’t do much blogging.
First, I’d like to say that it makes me laught that Franktown keeps coming back for more even though the first few times he posted he said he’s not coming back to this blog. (buh-bye) lol
Second, I agree with most of the points made on this blog. I have lived in the suburbs and the city. I have had numerous and various jobs here. I have sold cars, waited, worked at theatres, etc. I have been to a few high schools and colleges here. I have met alot of different people here. I have lived in and visited other cities and states. What I’m trying to say is that I think I have a fairly well rounded knowledge of the chicago area and can compare it to something else.
I moved here about 7 years ago. I went to the high schools that were self proclaimed to be one of the top schools in the country. The education and experience I recieved there should be considered a crime (exaggerating only a little bit). In my original school (where I moved from)I tested out of several different classes and was set up to attend some college cources for junior year of high school. (Yeah where I came from they offered that. A bus would take me to a local community college and then back during the school day.) When I moved to Cook (Crook) County I was told that there was no way I could test out of any classes (because the “top” school in the country doesn’t offer any advanced level art classes or college classes). So I was put in the classes I have already surpassed. Oh and this is Dist. 211 by the way. Some of the highest paid teachers in the country. They get tons of money from Woodfield Mall (taxes) and put it in their pocket. This is the same District that wanted to increase taxes because they said they dind’t have enough money.
When it comes to the people of Chicagoland, there are some really friendly people here. I’d say the ratio is 1 Mother Teressa (some truly nice people) to 50 backstabing demons from hell. In fact I get a new set of friends here every so often just because I realize that they only call or visit when they desperately want something. When I just need a friend to talk or have a drink with all of the sudden they disappear off the face of the earth. Then they magically reaper when they want somethin again. So therefore I’m forced to seek new friends (when I’am certain I’m being used).
I am young and I like to go out to bars and clubs when I can, but Chicago seems to have a problem (and I have been to bars and clubs in 4 other major cities). Chicago bars seem to only fit into one of several categories. Theres filthy rich bars (where beautiful people stand around in a beautiful club and do absolutely nothing but show off money and cars, black only bars (mainly hip-hop bars some of which I would get my ass kicked and possibly shot just for being white), pubs (where music sucks and it’s all about food and beer), gay bars (a welcoming crowd but I like the ladies), and last but not least the house music bars ( usually they’re packed to the point that there no room to dance or just get to the bathroom, cover charges are from 20-30 bucks and domestic beer is 5 bucks a bottle. Where does one park for under $50?). So where does some one go to mingle with all different types of people with good music, decent drink prices, cover charge that is not ridiculous and maybe a place to park. Well, there are actually plenty of thouse clubs in Autin, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Florida, Minneapolis, and the list goes on…just not in Chicago. Oh and am I the only one that finds it strange that at least half of the clubbers and bar goers are married or in a serious relationship? Kind of makes the whole experience a little less fun. I always thought clubs attracted mostly single people not couples.
Are there jobs in the city? Because I couldn’t even find a part-time gig that paid anything more than minimum wage. I made twice that in the suburbs. I thought the jobs in the city would pay more. Actually it’s backwords for many jobs in Chicago. Jobs in the suburbs pay more. Does that make sense?
I am going stop there for now even though I just realized I could write a book on the wrongs of Chicago. There are a few positives like the beach and summer time in Chicago is fun but other than that this city is just corrupted and filthy. I find it funny that Batman was filmed in Chicago. Chicago is in many ways like Gotham, only no Batman to save us.
Thank you Darc-falcon for creating this blog. For a long time I thought I was alone. (People just looked at me strange if I said I wanted to get away from here. There was a time where I had wondered if I died and gone to some horrible place of torment.)
bigspeakers Says:
August 3, 2008 at 1:13 am edit
Sry for the misspelling and I probably could have seperated that big block into a couple paragraphs. Lol.
August 3, 2008 at 2:07 am edit
Good point Bigspeakers. I’ve lived in Chicago 21 years and do to many friends leaving for various reasons, I spend most days, weekends by myself. I’m a friendly, decent looking guy and dating here isnt easy as well. I’ll take some of the blame myself but I find there’s a lack of caring, warmth, (what I called in a previous blog charisma bypass) in this city that’s not prevalent back East or in California.
Good points you made, and good luck with the job search. Bush left the economy a mess (a differnet subject)..Possibly try the Chicago Reader for above minimum wage jobs dowtown.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 3, 2008 at 7:41 am edit
in terms of dating, Chicago women are not very friendly (not you Falcon). The guys are not much better to the womens’ credit. I have like dozens of cousins and only only a few are married, really says something about the area, maybe its the times. Oh well, the cousin that is my age and married got the hell out of Illinois, I don’t blame her.
DarcKnyt Says:
August 3, 2008 at 10:43 am edit
J. R. — Hey bud, you don’t have to make sure Falcon doesn’t count herself among “Chicago women”. She doesn’t. Never has. Never will. Feel free to rant without disclaimer. ;)
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 3, 2008 at 2:45 pm edit
BigSpeakers – By all means, put your 2 cents in! We welcome those who feel as you do – and even those who don’t, as long as they’re respectful.
Franktown has now become a sort of “friend with whom we agree to disagree” – he has since started his own blog and posts his stuff over there, for the most part. ;)
I had to laugh at your 50-1 ratio! Seriously though, I think that’s not too far off the mark. I have met some wonderful people around Chicagoland. Unfortunately, the jerks I’ve met far outnumber the nice folks. The South still seems to have the courtesy thing down however. I just don’t get why it’s so hard for people to behave with common decency. It’s easier to be nice and the payback is better.
Not being a bar person, what you describe is not familiar to me. I’ve heard many people mention it though so I know you’re not alone in your assessment. It seems to me that the whole bar scene is really just a bunch of different cliques – just like junior high and high school. Birds of a feather like to flock together – hence this post. ;) Chicagoans have enough places of their own so I made this one for those of us with a different opinion. You can think of it as the “Anti-Chicago Bar.” ;)
Jobs? Well, that depends on what industry you’re working in. Chicago has negative growth in the financial and tech industries. This I know for a fact. Other industries, I’m not as familiar with. You’d have to do some research on places like city-data.com and cityrating.com.
Batman – yes. Chicago is like Gotham and Daley is the Joker.
Thank you for visiting BigSpeakers, come back any time you need to vent. We won’t look at you strangely here. And you can ignore the trolls who pop in from time to time and just want to stir up trouble. )
Oh – I edited your comment into paragraphs for you. )
phx-to-chi Says:
August 3, 2008 at 5:49 pm edit
Hey bigspeakers, you sound a lot like me in terms of age and the fact that you’re single and straight. Just curious what places you are considering moving to if you are in fact leaving Chicago. –> I just assume on this thread most are either already gone, in the process of or wish they could get out of the chicago area… Are they in fact the places you listed? Austin, Dallas, Houston, Minnesota, Florida, and Atlanta. I’ve been to all the Texas cities and I agree the night life is decent there although Dallas had some serious attitudes but maybe it was my bad luck. Anyways, just wanted to get an idea of where you would be going to next and what your best type of city has.
I’ve been in Phoenix for 6 years now and have lived in quite a few different areas. I will be finishing grad school soon and am looking for a world class city that allows me to have great job prospects and most importantly lots of outdoor recreation opportunities. So far the top of my list is San Francisco, thanks to this blog.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 3, 2008 at 9:45 pm edit
Pete – hang in there! Your special lady is out there somewhere. )
JR – Thanks, I appreciate that. ) Darc is right though – I don’t count myself among Chicago women. And I’m not part of the dating scene anymore. ;)
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 3, 2008 at 9:48 pm edit
PHX! Good to see you again! And glad to hear you’re still considering places other than Chicago to move to. In all honesty, I think you’ll find more success somewhere else. You haven’t said which field your studies are in, but if they involve the financial or tech industries, Chicago isn’t where it’s happening right now. Stay in touch! I’m looking forward to seeing where you eventually land. )
bigspeakers Says:
August 3, 2008 at 10:37 pm edit
Thanks guys for the warm welcome.
Thanks DarcFalcon for editing my post.
Phx-to-chi, have you researched Houston, TX. I have visited and almost moved there. I don’t know if I would call it a world class city, but they have an extremely low cost of living considering it’s the fourth largest city in the U.S. (by population). If I recall correctly they have decent financial, technology, energy, and medical jobs. The air quality and traffic is questionable, but the southern hospitality makes up for that I think.
The only reason I didn’t move to Houston was that, I had no family there and I wanted to give Chicago another chance. I ended up moving to the city to attend school. I finished a semester at Columbia and moved back to the burbs.
Right now my family is trying to move to Minneapolis so I thought I would wait and go to school there. I’m not sure if I will like the cold weather , but if everything else is decent it shouldn’t be an issue.
I definetly agree that a good majority of the women in Chicago are kind of cold (not all of them, but alot). Every time I go to another state I end up meeting girls, dacing with girls, etc (and I don’t have to work hard at it). In Chicago getting girls to talk or dance seems near impossible.
Again thanks for the welcome guys and I hope each of us will find our “home”.
bigspeakers Says:
August 3, 2008 at 10:44 pm edit
Before I forget…
DarcsFalcon (I finally spelled it right)- When I saw Batman Begins I thought that the “Falcony” (the mob character) looks a lot like Daley.
DarcKnyt Says:
August 3, 2008 at 11:54 pm edit
LOML — Daley is NOT the Joker. The Joker is much smarter, much cooler, and would do a better job running the place. Daley is the JOKE.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 4, 2008 at 12:10 am edit
Darc my Love – I have to agree, the Joker would do a better job! LOL Great comeback!
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 4, 2008 at 12:15 am edit
Good to see you again, Speakers! I think if you can survive a Chicago winter, you’ll do ok in MN. )
I’ll have to watch Batman Begins again and check out that Falcony character – my memory for stuff like that is notoriously bad! LOL )
I hope we will all find our homes too. That’s a nice thought. )
shitcagoan Says:
August 4, 2008 at 3:03 am edit
Hey Bigspeakers…… You should be careful of going to MN. The entire midwest isn’t just like Chicago, but I wouldn’t chance it. Good LUCK!!!!
shitcagoan Says:
August 4, 2008 at 3:16 am edit
Yo Darcs…. heres that page of the list….it’s also from Forbes. http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/23/cities-america-expensive-forbeslife-cx_ls_0724expensive_us_slide_6.html?thisSpeed=15000
I dont mean to spam, you can delete this , but I figured you might want to see it!
Jason Says:
August 4, 2008 at 11:02 am edit
Chicago, not the best city in the world. I’m not much of a writer but I will say is Chicago has been rough and I never have run into people who were nice, and the people that were somewhat decent, weren’t from Chicago. I’m from Wisconsin and have lived in Orlando, New York, and Milwaukee. As crazy as it sounds I found people in New York that were easier to get along with then the people of Chicago. Let’s not even get started about the crime rate and corruption in the government.
I will say that Chicago does have a clean downtown compared to most cities, and the river running though does add a nice touch. The lake is nice too.
Anyways, i’m leaving in a month and moving to Seattle. Adios Chicago!
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 4, 2008 at 3:01 pm edit
Shitcagoan – I did find that on Yahoo! Thanks for the link – and the reminder! I’ve been planning a post on that, and an accompanying one from Forbes. Hopefully I’ll get to it this week! Getting all packed up? 2.5 weeks!
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 4, 2008 at 3:05 pm edit
Jason – thanks for visiting my little post here. ) Are you a Packers fan? I ask because I’ve seen Packers fans harassed around here and I’m wondering if you’ve had a similar experience.
I hear Seattle’s lovely – let us know how it goes for you! We always like to hear of folks finding places that suit them. )
franktown Says:
August 4, 2008 at 4:55 pm edit
Chicago is a very slutty city.
Thus, the girls here ARE pretty easy to dance with.
What you have to do, is be extremely confident, smile, and act like you’re the shit. IF you do, then she will believe the mask that you put on and want to dance with you.
But I think girls in Houston are probably even easier, and with them you don’t even have to put on a mask.
BTW—– moving to Seattle??? Ness, I used to live there, wink wink
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 4, 2008 at 8:23 pm edit
Congrats being from Wisconsin. I have so much more respect for Wisconsin than Illinois for many reasons. Chicago is rough, congrats on leaving. There is nothing “friendly” or “mid western about it.” Tell all of your pro Chicago friends to drive around the South or Westside at night and play Joy Division during the winter– probably be so creeped out they’d never want to return
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 4, 2008 at 11:23 pm edit
Frank – I know! You’ve lived EVERYwhere in the country at some point or other! ;) ROFLMAO
JR – WI is cooler in a lot of ways I think – I know for a fact the roads are better!
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 5, 2008 at 12:00 am edit
Falcon seriously, seems like anywhere is better sometimes. People complain about Cincy sometimes, but after 20 years in illinois, run for the hills.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 5, 2008 at 1:47 am edit
JR – It sure feels like that, doesn’t it?
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 5, 2008 at 2:55 am edit
yeah, place sucks don’t know what else to say, haha.
shitcagoan Says:
August 5, 2008 at 4:47 pm edit
Franktown- To comment on Houston like that, it would help if you’ve actually been there.
The “slutty” (you forgot to mention overwieght and cursing like sailors) girls and guys that think they are “the shit”, are the worthless kind of people we are talking about.
bigspeakers Says:
August 5, 2008 at 10:52 pm edit
shitcagoan- ain’t that the truth
I suppose I should thank franktown for proving my point. I agree that you have to be confident to pick up girls, but when you have to wear a mask to get people to talk to you then there’s a problem. I guess most people from Chicago don’t realize this is a problem.
In a way Chicago is a hot young gold digger. She’ll love you when you’re giving her all your money, but the minute you run out you’re on the street and forgotten. Maybe that’s why Kanye West (for those who don’t know he’s from Chicago) made the song “Gold Digger”. Lol.
franktown Says:
August 6, 2008 at 1:43 am edit
Ummm…. are we thinking of girls or are we thinking of girls???
Because last I remembered… girls are like that!!! They want to be around guys who think they’re the shit. If you’re not confident, you’re not going to get the “hot” girl that you’re into… anywhere (New York women ARE forces to be reckoned with… Sex and the City didn’t even scratch the surface to their fierceness… and yes, I have actually been there!) Ness, back me up here on my girl points!
Of course, we are only talking about women at bars! Guys at bars are going to tend to be the same way: stupid drunk assholes who think they’re the shit. If you go to an art show, a movie, or take a class, you’ll find plenty of friendly girls who aren’t “slutty” or friendly guys who aren’t “meatheads”.
I just got home from a Sox game and yes, many Chicagoans are meatheads, but many aren’t. I’ve sure found my spot in this city. guess what kind of person I am????
bigspeakers Says:
August 6, 2008 at 10:37 am edit
franktown- there is no arguement about the fact that most girls like confident guys. Some younger girls that one would usually find in bars and clubs like assholes who treat them with dissrespect (certainly not all of them, but enough to notice). This is somewhat true for most of the country and even the world.
I know how the game goes and trust me I’ve made some great plays. The point I’m trying to make is that in other parts of the country you can actually meet genuine people with genuine things to say. I didn’t have to wear a mask in Houston, Florida, or Michigan. In fact when I lived in Michigan most people frowned upon those who were full of bs (wearing a mask).
Sometimes life is just too short to be acting like someone you’re not.
By the way when I was talking about getting girls to dance, I meant that many girls in Chicago have a certain guard up. They think if they dance with you, they have to sleep with you or something. Girls in Houston for example will dance with just about anyone just because they are at a club, bar, or party and they came to have a good time. That doesn’t mean they will sleep with you and it doesn’t mean they are any easier than the girls in Chicago.
Congradulations on the Sox game by the way. I heard they won. I feel bad for the Cubs fans out there. They haven’t won a world series in so long I think the fans are just torturing themselves by going to the games (no offence to Cubs fans, that must just suck).
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 6, 2008 at 4:21 pm edit
Frank – Dude! At least you said “women at bars”!! I don’t think anyone’s going to find quality companionship in a bar. Plus, I haven’t been part of the dating scene in years, so I don’t know how girls “are” anymore. There are always sluts, users, and nice girls. The saying, “Birds of a feather flock together” tends to hold true, so buyer beware when you go into places that aren’t exactly … classy. ;)
Speakers – “Sometimes life is just too short to be acting like someone you’re not.” Wise man!
franktown Says:
August 6, 2008 at 4:31 pm edit
Haha… you haven’t been in the dating scene because you’re married. I don’t know whether or not to say congrats or to feel sorry for you. I guess by the time I reach 50 I’ll be tired of being single and then want to settle down permanently. But here’s a question even I don’t know the answer to: What does a single 50-something do to get dates in cities like New York or Chicago?
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 6, 2008 at 5:40 pm edit
Frank – Wish me congratulations because it’s a wonderful marriage. D I have no idea what a 50-something single person does to find a mate – probably the same things a 20-something does. I’ll never find out though, because even if something, God forbid, were to happen to my husband, I’d never marry again. My husband and I met online, so a lot of people probably do that, too.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 6, 2008 at 6:45 pm edit
Chicago is not a friendly city:not for dating, not for work, not for anything.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 6, 2008 at 6:46 pm edit
Moving from Texas to Chicago is the wrong move from what I hear.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 6, 2008 at 6:56 pm edit
Texas women are legendary. I’ve been in discussion with my Chicago cousins numerous times on this issues take me a to a bar and i can point out the people from south Carolina (very friendly) or Texas (also very friendly), forget the Chicago women, you have absolutely nothing on the Southern ones.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 6, 2008 at 8:49 pm edit
JR – Moving to Chicago from anywhere else in the US is the wrong move.
My TX friend will be pleased to hear you say so. D
franktown Says:
August 6, 2008 at 10:15 pm edit
BS- Moving AWAY from Chicago to anywhere else in the country is the wrong move. Where else are you going to find supreme deep dish pizza and thick ass roast beef sandwiches. Oh well, more for me!!
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 6, 2008 at 10:28 pm edit
Frank – Saucy sausage on dough does not a deep dish pizza make. I’ve had MUCH better pizza in CA. And I make unbelievable sandwiches myself, according to my husband, so I take that with me wherever I go. ;)
shitcagoan Says:
August 7, 2008 at 8:58 am edit
JR. (withdrawl)
I’ll drink to that! I should have never left Austin!
PS Darcs….I hope this Chicago girl bashing isn’t offensive to you!
realr Says:
August 7, 2008 at 9:07 am edit
A quote from Dars: “The saying, “Birds of a feather flock together” tends to hold true, so buyer beware when you go into places that aren’t exactly … classy.”
Here’s is am example of one of those places that aren’t classy by any means:
Meanwhile more news from this garbage dump trying to pass itself off as an actual city:
Next thing you know, tax rates (already the highest in the United States) will go to 12%, and still nothing will happen, I can guarantee to you, it will get worse.
These pseudo-tough guys, when they are actual complacent little whimpering sheeple, with do nothing and go along with it. The 12% will need to feed this bureaucracy of corruption, and the people will continue to live and walk through this filthy (that is both the aesthetics of this city, and the people themselves) large dumpster called Shitcago, and will do nothing, just put there heads down and mumble to themselves how bad it is.
You know, these trashy people let it happen, so they deserve the city and how it works, since they did nothing to improve it. They are just as bad, just as dirty, il-mannered, and extremely racist, so maybe it is a good fit.
BTW, the food here is horrible, greasy, extremely fatty (look at the people on the street, and you see the obese end result). This isn’t LA, NYC, South Texas, SF, Paris(Europe is just great), this isn’t even good enough to be these cities dumpsters.
Also, been there done that, I don’t mention cities like a crying little racist little narrow minded racist moron, when I have never set foot in them, this city is just bloody awful.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 7, 2008 at 9:29 am edit
Falcon doesn’t even want to be associated with “chicago women,” her husband already mentioned that to me!
Shitcagoan, WTF were you thinking??!!!
Glad to hear you are on your way out. The only way I hear Chicago women described, is with the “C” word. Heard it from local men. Heard it from outsiders. Its the truth.
Raga6 Says:
August 7, 2008 at 12:19 pm edit
Everyone in Texas is always smiling in pictures. You look at people in Chicago in pictures they always look like they are constipated and would rather stick a hot poker in their eye than be where they are. Come to the lone star state, it may be hot and humid and yes we do have bugs the size of cars that fly but the people here are sooo worth it! Plus it’s cheap as hell to live here. (Fal, I think I need a Texas rocks page! LOL)
No way is Fal a Chicago chick, she’s awesome enough to be a Texan! Love ya woman!
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 7, 2008 at 2:04 pm edit
it’s always fun when you read comments like this:
“franktown Says:
August 6, 2008 at 10:15 pmBS- Moving AWAY from Chicago to anywhere else in the country is the wrong move. Where else are you going to find supreme deep dish pizza and thick ass roast beef sandwiches. Oh well, more for me!!”
dude, get a life, you can get those anywhere :))
the pro-Chicago arguments are so dumb it is hard to believe any adult can make them. Other meaningless, unsubstantiated arguments you can use: great sport teams, great culture, great nightlife, safety, green city, great transportation. dude, you can only use those argument on people from Bismarck not on people who have seen other major cities…
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 7, 2008 at 3:11 pm edit
The worst part is when you realize how this town’s negativity and apathy (someone was right on the money with the term “lack of charisma”) gets to you. Three years ago I did not oppose when I was hearing Chicagoans praise their schools, sports, diversity and food – why bother? I WAS from New York; you can feed me BS about your pizza and hotdogs and roast beef all day long but everyone knows that few thousand of UN diplomats, thousands of rich Wall Street and shobiz folks make sure the quality of anything in New York is just top of the line. It’s just that the rich and famous have the money and ability to compare quality to other places in the world they visit, so at the end we all benefit. That’s how it works in New York and that’s why nothing is really outstanding here in Chicago. There are almost no rich and famous living here.
Well, that’s pretty simple and foolproof logic but the scary part is that back then this whole Chicago nonsense was THEIR problem and now it suddenly became MY problem. It gets to me now and I am slowly turning into one of the unhappy, unimaginative zombies living that I despised so much! I am posting negative comments on the web that other negative people comment on. OMG!
I just realized what happened to me and that I have to get out of this place before I start wearing Cubs jersey to work and read Chicago Tribune for balanced international news…
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 7, 2008 at 11:06 pm edit
Shitcagoan – You can bash Chicago girls all you want, I’m not one. ;)
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 7, 2008 at 11:10 pm edit
RealR – I was reminded of that quote, and forgive me if I get it wrong, I believe it goes, “All that’s required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.”
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 7, 2008 at 11:38 pm edit
Raga – Aw thanks hon! I feel like an honorary Texan now! D *hugs*
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 7, 2008 at 11:42 pm edit
Lost – I had to laugh! “Other meaningless, unsubstantiated arguments you can use: great sport teams, great culture, great nightlife, safety, green city, great transportation.”
But this troubled me – “I am posting negative comments on the web that other negative people comment on. OMG!” I hope you weren’t talking about my blog!
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 8, 2008 at 8:09 am edit
Raga I’m coming to Texas.
Raga6 Says:
August 8, 2008 at 1:30 pm edit
J.R. come on down! We’ll cook cows and talk about how happy we are surrounded by all these nice southern people and how we have some of the cheapest gas in the country. Also there is a veritable buffet of hots guys and gals. Not to mention the job market here is better than most places and that’s for just about any field. Also, the housing market isn’t too shabby either. Houston, where I live, has a surprisingly huge theater district, only NYC has more theater seats than Houston. Not to mention all the great restaurants of any flavor. Now I will be honest, we don’t have any hot dogs that look like salads and we like chili and cheese on our dogs. Also if you like beer you won’t find a better beer than Texas’ on brewed Shiner Bach. I could go on and on and I have but I’ll stop here. Point is if you can’t find something to be happy about in Texas then you are a pretty miserable person.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 8, 2008 at 3:10 pm edit
Raga – “hot dogs that look like salads” ROFLMAO Yep, time for you to make a Texas page, time for you to start a blog!
JR – if you’re looking for places, Houston is rocking right now, and SF is too. ;) Houston’s cheaper though, and only a couple hundred miles from the beach.
Raga6 Says:
August 8, 2008 at 3:17 pm edit
We’re only about 100 miles from Galveston Island and if you’re used to driving around a city this big it seems like a short drive. LOL
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 8, 2008 at 8:34 pm edit
No, I think I’d do Texas because I have more of a “leave me alone” attitude right now. I’d don’t need Nancy Pelosi as my representative, after having Obama and Durbin.
Although, I wouldn’t be as on edge, hopefully, if I ever moved to Northern Cali.
Texas seems like they actually will raise hell if anything gets too ridiculous by their government and they have the firearms to do it.
In terms of liking beer. People from Northern Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota drink a ridiculous amount of beer, its cultural here because it gets cold and there is nothing to do.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 8, 2008 at 9:16 pm edit
JR – Pelosi’s a good reason not to go there too. I mean, a GOOD reason. TX is big on gun rights so that would make you happy, and it has instituted Castle Doctrine, and they probably have some of the best beef in the country. Just polish up your drawl and you’re good to go!
franktown Says:
August 8, 2008 at 11:43 pm edit
You’re right “Lost in Chicago”, we don’t have any famous people living here. Thank god! Ness…. does Joan Cusack really count? I here she’s a real bitch.. oh well, I hear nobody seems to bother her when they see her walking down Central street in Evanston (where she supposedly lives).
Yeah, I may be apathetic. But I sure am happy here. I don’t care what other cities have…. Chicago’s nightlife, food and culture is second in the country after NYC (SF, LA, Boston, and Austin are all close contenders… they are awesome as well!). Where is this Houston BS coming from??? I was in the loop every night from Thursday to Saturday last week and it was booming with people (sober and drunk), 24 hour restaurants, and bars open til 4 or 5am. Only NYC has that liveliness that late. And that’s only part of Chicago. Imagine the rest of the energy of the city!
Don’t get me wrong.. Other cities are great, I am sure, but Chicago and New York are really the true “urban”, gritty, and all American experiences one can experience here the in country.
BTW —– Is it true you can legally shoot someone for crossing your property in Texas???
franktown Says:
August 8, 2008 at 11:45 pm edit
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention America’s Greatest and most unique city… New Orleans.
Has anyone else been there? It was a blast, and not only for Mardi Gras. The food and the friendliness of the people really reminded me of Chicagoans… I know that WILL get a chuckle out of many of you guys!!! )
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 8, 2008 at 11:54 pm edit
Frank – that’s the Loop – the touristy area of the city. They keep that area clean and as crime free as possible so people will come back. The rest of the city isn’t like that.
The Houston stuff is coming from the fact that Houston is booming right now, big time.
And yes, not only can you shoot someone for crossing your property in TX, but I believe you can shoot someone crossing your neighbor’s property as well – like that guy who shot the 2 guys robbing his neighbor while the neighbor was away. Killed one as I recall, but I’d have to ask my Houston friend Raga about the details. Texas has the Castle Doctrine.
No comment from me on NOLA.
franktown Says:
August 9, 2008 at 12:00 am edit
Haha. Clean and civil? That certainly is a “mask” that the city portrays to tourists. We all know Chicagoans are anything but.
You gotta love Texas, huh? I’ve never been to Houston, but found Austin and Dallas incredibly homey… the atmosphere in Austin was certainly a good place for a person like me.
I have tons of friends from Houston who seem to be apathetic like me… seems your famous statement “birds of a feather flock together” holds some merit after all.
BTW— I added you onto my blogroll. Your welcome ;)
Weird Search Terms and Weekend Updates « DarcKnyt Says:
August 9, 2008 at 12:55 am edit
[…] the information they seek in my bio-data/biodata Nirvana.  I may next tell the world how much Chicago sucks and steal some of my wife’s […]
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 9, 2008 at 1:25 am edit
Frank – ROFL! You said it dude! “We all know Chicagoans are anything but!”
Apathetic … regarding Houston?
Thanks. ;)
The only famous people around here I think are Oprah – who’s always someplace else, and Michael Jordan, who’s often busy with his team I think, also someplace else. And they aren’t originally from here. Any famous people who are from here tend to leave for CA or NY. The Cusacks hang around though, from what I hear.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 9, 2008 at 8:01 am edit
Franktown, when I move to Texas I’m going to invite you over for tea.
And then shoot you, legally!
some whore bag totally used me for drinks last night, despite me being still hoping and its like 9 in the morning.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 9, 2008 at 9:28 am edit
Tea … *giggles hysterically* D
So that’s where you were last night! I was wondering.
franktown Says:
August 9, 2008 at 4:48 pm edit
Well, that’s kind of your fault that you let the whore bag use you. Never offer to buy a woman drinks in a bar (do you realize how 90’s that is?, haha)
Anyway, you got to engage her in a convo for a while and see if she’s interested… if she ain’t bullshiting you and stays for a while, buy her a drink, but if she leaves after five minutes… she’s a ho who’s totally using you.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 9, 2008 at 8:50 pm edit
Yeah, the problem is nearly every girl is a ho at the bar. Forget bars, bars suck. I think Falcon is right that bars suck. I love the bartender at this one bar. The guy is awesome.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 9, 2008 at 11:16 pm edit
Frank and JR – pshaw, what do you guys know of the 90’s! You barely skated into the 80’s as it is! ;)
Yep, bars suck. Not the place to meet the girl of your dreams. You’ll meet tramps for one-night-stands there, and it’s a place to hang out with your friends, but it’s not where you’ll find a sweetheart.
August 10, 2008 at 9:13 pm edit
Does it not seem like any Chicago Celebs end up moving away or living away?? Maybe an exception is Bernie Mac who unfortunately passed away here in Chicago. But do the Cusaks, Oprah, George Wendt, Dennis Farina, Kathy Griffin, etc. spend anytime here besides the 4 months of the year when the weather is decent? Even the rockers like Billy Corgan, Liz Phair, Fall out Boy etc. don’t spend much time hear. Why do you think that is??
Anyway glad folks like my “charisma bypass term”.. It’s so fitting.
Here’s a day in the life of a Chicagoan:::
Wake up, dodge 50 tourists on Michigan Ave. Stepped by accident on ones’ flip flops when she didnt yield the side walk to me. .Call me a mother–cker.
Went to the CTA station at Clark and Lake- The machine to add money to my card wasnt working. Went to the other machine. It too was out of order. Finally found one across the street that worked.. Hopped on a Blue Line train. It broke down between Lake St and Grand Ave. Stopped dead for 15 minutes. Finally it got going and ran “express” to Logan Square, but with a caveat that Montrose was the last stop due to more construction. Got off at Irving and Pulaski. Waited 35 minutes on a SATURDAY AFTERNOON for a bus. And guess what ..?? 3 showed up .. Had a nice walk at North Park Village (a real treasure in this city by the way since it’s off the tourist and yuppie beaten path). Stopped at Walgreens. The “friendly clerk” as is Chicago tradition wouldnt greet me, say hi, thank you or read me the price. She did mumble in her best african-american English “do you want a bag”?? I told her no. Then I hopped on the Brown line at Kimball. It went a roaring average of 10 mph (I’m sure the Olympic comittee would love to hear this). And from Belmont on to the Loop I had no choice but to watch two guys making out with each other for the whole trip (I’m not homophobic, but certainly I could do without the public displays of affections). I also got to see a couple of folks woofing down some Mickey Dees on the train, as well as the usual odors.
Anyway, I guess it beats sitting in traffic..
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 11, 2008 at 2:28 pm edit
Pete – I think it seems like they can’t leave fast enough! They have to get out to “make it” and then they find things are so much nicer where ever they went to that they don’t want to come back. Can’t say as I blame them!
I’m sorry you had such a crappy afternoon on the “transportation system.” I think the Olympic committee will find itself very sorry indeed if it chooses Chicago for the 2016 games. I think if that were to happen, Chicagoans would only be too thrilled to show the rest of the world how proud they are of their “bad-ass punk attitude.”
Hope you’re having a better day!
franktown Says:
August 11, 2008 at 4:49 pm edit
You think the Olympic committee gives a flying fuck about transportation systems?
If it did, it wouldn’t have chosen Atlanta or Salt Lake City to host the games. Lets face it folks, after New York, Chicago is the next best thing in public transit. It may not be perfect (or maybe even near perfect), but I really don’t care waiting 10 or 15 minutes for a train to come (even in the winter).
BTW, public transportation has always slowed down on weekends in every city… simply because people don’t use it as much. During the weekdays, the buses and trains are much more frequent. People work more on those days! I’m sorry you had to wait 35 minutes, but many times you have to look at schedules to prevent waiting times from being to long.
realr Says:
August 11, 2008 at 5:44 pm edit
Wow,, it great how franktown the racist apologist troll keeps coming back (although he cries like a child over and over again, that he won’t.), and says transportation doesn’t matter to IOC, clueless too, yes, stay in Shitcago you belong.
Of course it matters, anyone with an IQ over 50 knows this.
It is one of the major selling points for the IOC (I am sure you’ll Google this term, since you’re so knowledgeable about all this).
One, it is a major need for safety reasons in case of an emergency and two, it is one of the major points a city has to make to show everyone it has the ability to move a large amount of people quickly and efficiently, and also that it’s facilities (buses, stations, rail cars) are clean and safe.
BTW, when the IOC came here in last Spring, it fell short in initial inspection (the CTA fell short, what a shock).
A quote from the story below, there are more recent ones this week about Daley in awe of Beijing’s transportation system (clean, efficient).
“Transit key to Chicago’s bid”
But transportation issues clearly were top of mind, especially since an IOC evaluation of the city’s bid this spring cited transit plans as an area needing more work. Chicago and the other three finalist cities have until February to refine their bids and submit them in a bid book
Here’s an idea, read (I know Shitcagoeans don’t read anything but the low-brow Red Eye bullshit) but maybe you should research before spouting on about subjects you know nothing about.
Go on and say “duh, dar Chicaaago is great, we drink and have tall buildings, we’re narrow minded and il-mannered clueless and obese”, go on I expect nothing less.
franktown Says:
August 11, 2008 at 8:04 pm edit
Yeah, I am racist. Haha.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 11, 2008 at 10:36 pm edit
RealR – Yes, Franktown comes back often now that he’s outed himself, gotten himself a blog and come clean. Click his name and it’ll take you right to it. I have to admit, he’s become less troll-like in his dealings with me, although he and JR still “go at it” occasionally.
You and I both know the transportation thing is important to the IOC, as they’ve clearly stated. I’m really hoping Chicago doesn’t win the bid, so they can see that from an international standpoint, they don’t measure up.
I’m hopeful that as time goes on, Frank will gain an education in terms of Chicago. He’s young yet, and in that blush of young manhood, but I’m sure that as he gets older and has to deal with a lot of these things we’ve talked about here, he’ll begin to understand what we mean. )
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 11, 2008 at 11:42 pm edit
I see we have the orgininal crew back in this post. This stuff is more funny than anything lately. Franktown just represents the all the people who are dicussed, so he is likely to get the brunt of shit for coming around.
Public transit could be improved for the size of Chicago. I swear Chicagoans hate trains. They drive like a block to the mini mart–its like rediculous sometimes. I literally know more than a few who do that. And then they complain how fat they are.
Anyways, a friend of my friend, was killed on the near westside on Sunday. They don’t have anyone in custody. The true viciousness of that city lies in its seemingly non-sensical murder rate, many of which are over a dime. jason mueller- i don’t suppose any of you would have leads, as it was probably some worthless P.O.S. in that city.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 12, 2008 at 12:40 am edit
JR – I’m so sorry about your friend’s friend. I know that must have been shocking – still is I’m sure as this just happened just a day or 2 ago. You and your friend have my deepest sympathies. *hug*
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 12, 2008 at 3:22 am edit
Daley looks in awe of beijing transit, Realr, maybe because he doesn’t take the train in Chicago.
I really think the transit is bad in chicago for cultural reasons. Everyone loves to drive their fat ass in America and I can’t really blame them. Its our individualistic culture that is our greatest friend and enemy when it comes to civic problems and government. And actually the Metra is decent.
Beijing may have trains but they also get rolled over with tanks if they speak too loud. Something I always love about blogs–free speech– You can just throw things at Franktown and you don’t have to worry about secret police killing you– well at least in pre-911 America..
Its funny how Realr is even going after Frankie now. I’m starting to feel bad for Franktown cause I’m a total dick to him lately, oh wait I don’t have any balls (inside joke for anonymous readers–read this whole post comments). RANT!
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 12, 2008 at 9:38 am edit
JR – our boy Frankie has been respectful here since he came out from under the bridge so I give him credit for that. He’s got his own blog now so if anyone wants to exchange viewpoints with him, he’s made himself available. Kind of a bold move, since he knew he’d stirred people up here a little.
Yes, you and he do seem to go at it sometimes! LOL I have both your comments on my Reader so it’s like reading a comic book sometimes!
franktown Says:
August 12, 2008 at 5:21 pm edit
I know what you mean Ness!
I want people to come to my blog and shit talk me, but the only foreign comment I got was this one guy who said he wanted to exterminate all old people (
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 12, 2008 at 11:25 pm edit
Frank – it takes all kinds. *cough* ;) Give it time. I’ve been on WP for a year, and things didn’t start to look up for me until the last 4-6 mos or so. Just blog how you like – sort of, “If you build it, they will come,” sort of thing. And be sure to tag your posts and use categories. )
And that guy was bonkers.
Raga6 Says:
August 14, 2008 at 1:02 pm edit
Chicago is such a great sports town and the fans get pumped. Well that’s right, the fans got so pumped that when the Astros played the White Sox in the world series the great pumped up fans felt the need to verbally and physically attack the wife of an Astros player who was sitting in the stands. Those are some great fans that really get into the worst part of sports.
Great place to be proud of.
Raga6 Says:
August 14, 2008 at 2:39 pm edit
Well I am sorry you were treated badly, there’s never an excuse for shitty behavior. You didn’t deserve that. Maybe the people who gave you a hard time were from Chicago. Just kidding! : )
At least the Chicago and Houston fans aren’t anywhere near as bad as New York fans.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 14, 2008 at 2:51 pm edit
Pixie – Actually, Chicago fans are notorious for misbehaving at games – see my friend JR’s post about that: http://chicagowithdrawal.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/what-needs-to-be-said-marty-brennaman-and-ozzie-guillen/
And who can forget the Bears fans with the sign reading, “Finishing what Katrina started!” when the Bears played the Saints in the playoffs a couple years ago?
No, Chicago fans have not gained a good reputation.
Really though Pixie, this isn’t a debating site. We’ve heard all the arguments pro-Chicago, which is why we’re here, and we really don’t find arguing to be fun or enjoyable. You can check out my friend Frank’s site at http://franktown.wordpress.com for more like-minded company. )
As I said at the top of my post, “If you’ve come here to argue with me, please don’t bother. You’re never going to change how I feel about a place, or undo what I’ve dealt with. If you want to love on Chicago, I’m more than happy to point you to http://www.wordpress.com, where you can get your own blog and praise Chicago to the skies. No hard feelings.” D
Thanks. )
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 14, 2008 at 3:23 pm edit
franktown Says:
August 8, 2008 at 11:43 pm
“Yeah, I may be apathetic. But I sure am happy here. I don’t care what other cities have…. Chicago’s nightlife, food and culture is second in the country after NYC (SF, LA, Boston, and Austin are all close contenders… they are awesome as well!). And that’s only part of Chicago. Imagine the rest of the energy of the city! Don’t get me wrong.. Other cities are great, I am sure, but Chicago and New York are really the true “urban”, gritty, and all American experiences one can experience here the in country.”
Do not even try to put New York in the same league as Chicago… There is nothing urban about Chicago as its shares its popular culture with the rest of the Farmland: beer drinking and endless BBQ’s…
Chicaqo is a self-proclaimed urban experience and cultural phenomenon. Maybes you should try the folks from Bismarck ND, they’ll buy it… Nobody on the East or West coast sees Chicago as anything else but a pretentious town full of hillbillies from surrounding towns and states. You are in in America’s Cornbelt, buddy. Stay there.
DarcKnyt Says:
August 14, 2008 at 3:36 pm edit
@Lost In Chicago — But I LIKE barbecue! Steven Raichlen is my HERO!
Everything else I’m okay with. But I gotta stand up for fire-grilled food. Mmm.
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 14, 2008 at 3:42 pm edit
pixies373 Says:
August 14, 2008 at 12:49 pm
I come from a small town in southern illinois and I have lived in Seattle, New York, and Miami and I have to say that I am happy to live in Chicago. It is a blessing in the midwest, and I know there is many people that love and hate it. The reason that I am going to defend Chicago on this site is because disagreeing is fun and without it, the world would be dull. Chicago has great pubs, restaurants, and the music scene is the best I have experienced in anywhere I have lived. I am excited to see a show almost every weekend. They get great acts and you do not have to settle with nickelback being the “best” gig for months. I hate to admit it (since I am a st. louis cardinals fan) that Chicago is a great sports town because I believe everyone gets pumped about the sporting events. I have to disagree and say Chicago is a great city.
If you moved from southern Illinois, I have been as far south as Peoria and that’s only central Illinois, then I have to agree, Chicago must be an exciting experience for you…
However, if you seen anything else then your claims about music scene and sports are not really inspiring as Chicago music scene has nothing going on. I hope you did not mean traveling acts as those are the same anywhere and New York and LA get three times as many as Chicago and do not count as a “scene”. As far as sports is concerned… Well the Cubs are the worst team in the league as there is no other team that hasn’t won in over 100 years. The Sox? Well they got lucky once in a hundred years ) Yes, the city gets pumped up about baseball as there is NOTHING else going on. There is no life in Chicago other then typical suburban beer drinking and BBQs…
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 14, 2008 at 3:57 pm edit
Jason Says:
August 4, 2008 at 11:02 am
As crazy as it sounds I found people in New York that were easier to get along with then the people of Chicago.
It is not crazy at all… Most people know New York from the movies so have no idea how the place really is…
Compared to Chicago, New York is the friendliest place on the planet. Chicagoans may try to be polite, but friendly or warm? Never. If you count on them to hold the door for you or simply smile when your eyes meet forget it. It only becomes apparent when you see them they turn their heads away to avoid eye contact with strangers, that they are actually very scared of other people. Then again, based on the crime statistics they should be. Terrible, terrible place: absolutely unfriendly and miserable most of the time.
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 14, 2008 at 4:03 pm edit
DarcKnyt Says:
August 14, 2008 at 3:36 pm
@Lost In Chicago — But I LIKE barbecue! Steven Raichlen is my HERO!
Everything else I’m okay with. But I gotta stand up for fire-grilled food. Mmm.
I do not mind it either but not as a pastime… Look around Chicago, I have never sees that many fat people any way in the world. I believe Men’s Magazine shows Chicago being number one fat city in the US… Do you think it just happened by itself?
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 14, 2008 at 4:16 pm edit
Lost in Chicago– you are right Chicago is pretentious as hell now. I don’t think it was always that way.
Only city where Cubs fans will tell you how great their franchise is yet they have not won in 100 years. I’m in Cincinnati now and I couldn’t be any happier cheering against them by rooting for the Reds.
While I don’t want to go to NY, I don’t think the too cities are comparable. Apples and Oranges as someone said.
If you like Chicago, go to any other Mid-western city and get everything chicago has, cheaper, with less traffic, and without a undeserved sense of pride. Go Cincinnati, Go Cleveland, Go Milwaukee, Go St. Louis , Go Kansas City, Go Minneapolis–the same thing without the attitude and traffic–plus friendlier people and more sane housing
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 14, 2008 at 4:27 pm edit
Falcon–thanks for the link to my marty brennaman-ozzie article.
New wave cubs fans are obnoxious.
Plus Chicago is stressful to live in, pain in the ass, seriously.
Lost in Chicago–
I lost over 30 pounds when I left Chicago! Could there be any relation?
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 14, 2008 at 6:16 pm edit
Lost – I fixed your comment for you. )
And I have to say about the BBQ thing – have you see Raichlen? The man is rail thin and lives on BBQ! I think it’s the fast food and all the pop we drink, plus junk food in general that’s, in part, the cause of the weight problems we’re experiencing as a society. I know of a man who lost 80+ lbs eating McD’s – only he ate salads, not the burgers and fries, and no pop either.
JR – You’re welcome bud. )
Raga – Love you! *hugs*
franktown Says:
August 14, 2008 at 8:50 pm edit
Lost In Chicago,
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 15, 2008 at 2:11 am edit
Thanks Darcs… BBQ is not bad and even McD when in MODERATE quantities will not be harmful. The thing is that while in Chicago all my friends here invite us to BBQs that are really feasts with multiple servings when you eat until you full and beyond… One of my first observations is that when Chicagoans go out they go to restaurants. The second one was how come there are so many obese people including kids… Now I know: there is NOTHING else to do in the winter and generally people in the are eat like their grandparents not realizing that they no longer need 7000 calories a day for sowing and harvesting etc. as they live in the city now…
It is really sad seeing so many obese kids as they will never have a chance at healthy life…
JR. I gained 25lbs my fist Chicago winter – I think there is a relation ) And you are right, please do not compare New York to Chicago, NYC is congested, expensive and tough but in exchange you get the opportunity to be around some of the brightest and most creative people in the world: New York Times, Broadway, Wall Street, SoHo and all the publishing houses are in New York for a reason.
DarcKnyt Says:
August 15, 2008 at 9:52 am edit
@Lost — Again, I stand by my defense of BBQ. It’s NOT the grilled food making people fat. If they subsisted on JUST BBQ, they’d LOSE weight and the obesity percentile in this country would DROP dramatically, because you’d essentially be doing the Atkins diet. Robert Atkins was a GENIUS whose discoveries and theories continually prove themselves over time despite the skeptics (honest ones) who try to refute his findings. The man CURED — not treated, CURED — diabetes in 95+% of his patients, and has records of over 30,000 such cases where heart disease, high cholesterol and other maladies associated with obesity were either reduced or eliminated COMPLETELY.
Barbecue is NOT the problem.
Fatty, deep-fried foods covered in batter, badly made “pizza” (if you can call it that), the crap that passes for “bread” here (I grew up in SF, I know bread — ask Falcon, she’s come to defer all bread selection to me), the thick, gloppy “sauces” (which are nothing more than gravy, full of flour and butter and whatever drippings from whatever meat they’re choking), lack of exercise in a place where winter can be from 7 to 9 months long — THESE are the reasons for the fat people.
Want the other reason? Probably the number one reason?
J. R. and Franktown and others have all confirmed it: there is only ONE real pastime in Chicago.
Nothing will make you as fat as drinking. And they do a lot of it here, whether in neighborhood bars, “night clubs”, sporting events, or at home in front of the TV while they lay about in their underpants and scratch themselves. I see these young people, wire thin (Raichlen’s NOT rail-thin, btw, but he’s NOT fat, either) with a beer in their hand on the train (wtf with that, too??). They think they’re invincible, and will never be fat. Wrong. They will. And at the rate they’re going, it will be sooner rather than later.
Nope, BBQ is NOT the problem, and neither is the quantity. It’s WHAT they’re eating at BBQ. Beans? Not good. Sandwiches with pulled pork or BBQ chicken? Getcha every time. But the meat itself?
Not the BBQ making people fat in Chicago. It’s the stupidity and alcohol.
franktown Says:
August 16, 2008 at 1:09 pm edit
Just had a BBQ with my friends yesterday outside in Lakeview and we had AMAZING lamb Kabobs.
Of course, we did drink, in Chicago tradition
Naoki Says:
August 16, 2008 at 1:09 pm edit
I believe Chicago is very wonderful. Very beautiful, very clean, and the best for business. This is coming from a Japanese perspective, but I feel Chicago is best for business and living. It is a business city with a eye on the future. I think it is the United States best city to do business. I think there are problems with all cities and this should be thought of when making critism. Other than business interests, Chicago is very clean and efficient like Tokyo, but I think a better train system would be better. Maybe the federal government should allocaate more money to the cities, I think the democrat party would be best for this pursuit. Chicago is the great business city and very beautiful.
DarcKnyt Says:
August 16, 2008 at 1:19 pm edit
Franktown — Of course! D
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 16, 2008 at 11:12 pm edit
Cool you believe that. Care to explaine why? I am asking becasue your sentiment is NOT generally shared by most major corporations in the US. For the third largest city in the US Chicago has only a handful of corporate headquarters…
Motorola, by the way is slowly dying…
But, what do you expect from a city with terrible communication infrastructure and high taxes? What exactly is supposed to be Chicago’s pull for big business? Daley’s wishful thinking?
Naoki Says:
August 17, 2008 at 1:48 am edit
Wishful thinking? why do you say this to me? what do I expect from a city of terrible communication infrastructure and high taxes? I expect a person that is not knowing facts and I will explain. Chicago is very good for business and living. Chicago is very good for low taxes and good labor market. Low corporate taxes, low property taxes, low cost office space, high talent workers, that is a very competitive business climate. Compare the complete cost of doing business like labor and efficiency to other cities. A article below ranks Chicago the 4th best city for business in the world. You must look at big picture not one company. http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/06/13/global.economy/ Also Chicago has the largest financial exchange in the world as well as many others exchanges. This is very important. This is why I know about Chicago. The CME and other exchanges means many skilled jobs which means high paying jobs which means more money for to shop and buy apartment which means more jobs for other chicago metropolitan people. I dont know why you speak for major corporations and say they do not like Chicago please show research. The city of Chicago and metropolitan of Chicago are home to many corporations. I read second most in America. Also I just read article http://www.siteselection.com/issues/2008/mar/topMetros/ that says Chicago is the top site for corporate expansion. This is very good considering the american housing crisis and slowed gdp growth. A similar crisis is spreading to europe and having influence on Japan and asia. Also you have never heard of TIF? it is a tax incentive given to companies to move to Chicago like Boeing. That is competitive business city. I did some research and found much information. There is a reason I know about Chicago and that is for business. I believe Chicago is best city in america for business and living.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 17, 2008 at 3:03 am edit
Naoki – I find it interesting that living in Tokyo gives you such a better knowledge of living in Chicagoland than even those who actually live in Chicagoland. You will “explain the facts” of Chicago life to Chicagoans? Who’s paying you?
You think the CME means many skilled and high paying jobs? ROFL Yeah, I’ve known people who worked there. And I guess you haven’t read about the negative growth in Chicago’s financial industry. Our national unemployment rate is 5.7%, but in Chicago it’s 7.3%. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-il-illinoisunemploym,0,3838215.story And you think there’s so much economic growth here, so many good jobs here? Make sure you read the part about the tax burden on businesses here, and how businesses in IL carry over 50% of the tax burden, and tell me again about low corporate taxes that you’ve read about.
You cite articles that are at best more than 6 mos old and even nearly 15 mos old. You think this is current and relevant information? Did you not notice at the bottom of one of the articles you mentioned, “SiteNet data is from many sources and not warranted to be accurate or current.”?? And I find it extremely interesting that the information in those articles you referenced are in direct opposition to the newspaper headlines from Chicago newspapers. You must have missed all the articles about job layoffs, all the news stories of tax increases, the articles about businesses leaving or going under. And just because you’ve “read” something doesn’t mean you “know” something, especially when what you’ve read contradicts what we who actually live here know.
Just so you know, Naoki, I have edited out the link in your name. Yours is not a blog site and I’m not in the business of promoting ad sites, thank you.
franktown Says:
August 18, 2008 at 12:43 am edit
Naoki…. go get ‘em!!!
BTW— Your people really know how to run there own country right. We should be taking pointers from you.
Naoki Says:
August 18, 2008 at 10:44 am edit
its almost 1 AM in the morning here and im very tired after long holiday and work. i see my other post now, the number two post. Please accept my apology if there before. my computer may not have refreshed pager or im just too tire and need new glasses. that was me joking. Bad joke. ok well thank you for letting me post. i have very busy weeks of work for long time now. maybe difficult for me to stay updated on blog. i want to say thank you for letting me post and sorry for my english. it is getting better with each year.
ok so good night from Tokyo. Chicago and Tokyo are my favorite two cities in the world. Chicago has a amazing economy and is a very important business city of now and even more in future. Also great place to live, so beautiful and clean. Such diverse people and so open. I love Tokyo and Chicago!
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 18, 2008 at 2:49 pm edit
I’m going to keep this short…
Naoki…read the POST! This post is not for you. IT is for people who already believe Chicago has some serious problems and do not want to live there. Chicago is efficient? Chicago is efficient because they have your money to spend without you complaining about it. 10.5 sales tax if it hasn’t gone any higher? Traffic is terrible. The air is garbage if you want to tale about Chicago being “clean.” Try sending your kids to the Chicago Public Schools, they suck with exception of the “magnet” ones. If you like what Chicago has to offer, try any other mid-west city–same thing without the traffic and attitude you have come to expect in Chicago. Tokyo–never been there can’t compare
Darknyt–I don’t think barbecues are the problem. Overeating and drinking are a problem because it is cold and boring at times. its more cultural here
Franktown–you suck.
Lost in Chicago– Barbecues can only last while the sun is around and people don’t hate outside– so about 2-3 months of the year so they live it up while they can. Good luck staying thin and living in Chicago. Stress and cold=obesity
Well i’ve been back in the suburbs for the weekend. Went up to wisconsin–definitely like it up there.
I don’t think i could live in chicago and crack a smile unless i’m going to make six figures or more– if you are not upper middle class or rich–live somewhere else and you can live like a king
If anyone wants to sing the praises of chicago, ill gladly set you straight on my blog. And set the facts down how they are. Without WGN propaganda.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 18, 2008 at 10:41 pm edit
Naoki – WordPress has a feature in their blog system that automatically spams comments that have a certain number of links in them.
Perhaps, since you don’t have a blog you are not familiar with what is commonly referred to as “netiquette.” What that means is that basically, when you visit a personal blog, you are, in effect, visiting their house, and proper respect and courtesy is expected. For instance, when your host asks you specifically not to do something – i.e. please don’t argue with me about my or my commenters feelings about Chicago – and then you blatantly disregard that request, it’s considered the height of rudeness and bad manners. To continue coming back to do more of the same is construed as “troll” behavior, or “flaming.” At the least, it is excessively impolite.
This is NOT a public forum Naoki, it is my “house.” And I take extreme umbrage at your implications of racism. I only know you’re in Tokyo. I don’t know if you’re Japanese, Korean, Hispanic, Chinese, Russian, French, Italian, American – pick a race, any race, and there are probably some people of that race living in Tokyo. Further, I don’t CARE what race you are. What I DO care about is that you came in to my house, deliberately ignored the request of your host, and then proceeded to be rude to another guest here. You’re going to tell a Chicagoan that they don’t know the facts about what it’s like to live in Chicago, when you yourself don’t live here? And reality check Naoki, you don’t live in Chicago, you visit here. And while Chicago may be a Democratic city, not everyone who lives here is a Democrat – namely your host.
And speaking of living here, I do NOT live in Peoria. One of the interviewees in the article I listed lives in Peoria but that in no way implies that I do. And the article, coming from CHICAGO as stated in its opening, talks about the unemployment rate in IL. Perhaps, since you don’t live here, you are unaware that Chicago is actually IN the state of IL? Is in fact the largest city in IL. Now you want to dismiss an article about IL unemployment rates and claim it doesn’t apply to Chicago? Consider the facts Naoki, that the Chicagoland population is roughly 10 million, and the population of the entire state of IL is roughly 13 million. Now where do you think most of the people in IL reside, and who do you think is most affected by those rising rates? That’s right, people living in and near Chicago.
So you want to come here, rudely ignore my requests that you not leave any pro-Chicago comments because this is not the place for that, be rude to another guest here by arrogantly claiming you know more about the city they live in than they do, be rude to me by claiming my information is not “relevant,” and insult me by inferring I’m a racist because WordPress spammed your comment, and you expect me not to get just a little bit perturbed with you?
I really don’t care if you love Chicago Naoki. Lots of people do. In fact, there are about 113 million Google hits for that. Instead you came to MY blog to insult me about my and my commenters opinions, just because you don’t like them. All of us have heard what all the pro-Chicago people have to say, and we’ve been attacked for our opinions too many times – which is why we come here to vent about our experiences. You are not a resident of Chicago, and you’re not a blogger, the only link to your name is a link farm. And you decided to be rude to me, your host. No, I’m not happy about that Naoki, not at all.
I would suggest, as I do to everyone else who comes here wanting to bash me and my guests for our opinions, get your own blog at http://www.wordpress.com. You can praise Chicago all you want, on you own blog, but not on mine.
Thank you.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 18, 2008 at 10:44 pm edit
JR – I love ya dude! D “WGN propaganda,” ROFLMAO! Oh you made me laugh and I so needed that!
August 19, 2008 at 12:15 am edit
Just a thought here.. Is Chicago a bigger Cleveland or a smaller New York?? I’ve quizzed some friends recently. Those from the midwest who dont’ know better call it a smaller, New York. I and some East coast friends say it’s a smaller Cleveland. The differences with New York are- Poor downtown food choices as opposed to great Pizza, Chinese, Deli etc in Manhattan, A fast paced downtown pakce with street live 24 X 7 and street vendors vs. A business district that folds up at 5pm. Outer boroughs with hi rise and great restaraunts and ethnic culture like Brooklyn, Queens etc versus “the Northwest Side and Southwest Side”.. 25 fast moving subway lines vs. the CTA. People with charisma and pizazz vs.. (fill in the blank).. Anyway it would be intersting to take a poll on if those on the site compared Chicago vs New York or Chicago vs Cleveland. I even had a friend who thought Chicago was a bigger Kansas City, but I told him I’ll give Chicago more credit than that. .Dallas was the bigger KC
August 19, 2008 at 12:16 am edit
Sorry I meant to say a bigger Cleveland (not smaller obviously).
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 19, 2008 at 3:22 am edit
Pete! You know – that is an interesting question. I think I’m going to go with larger Cleveland. I don’t think Chicago will ever have the global respect – or whatever you want to call it – that NY has, and yet it will always think it’s just as deserving as NY.
I sound pro-NY and in reality I loathe it, more even than I despise Chicago. But I can’t deny NY’s impact or place in the world and the fact that some of what it has to offer actually is better than what Chicago has to offer.
DarcKnyt Says:
August 19, 2008 at 9:29 am edit
LOML — Considering the treatment that both cities have given you, I’m surprised you still hold a grudge on NY the way you do. It’s got Chicago beat in every category, and I just don’t understand how 30 years of choking this city’s chicken hasn’t given you MORE of a bad taste than a year of that one. As a kid. Three decades ago.
Has NY changed in that time? Not likely. Still, your perspective on it as an adult would be different, and your ability to liberate yourself from the oppression evidenced in the system in which you were stuck is, obviously, higher.
Not being city people (and let’s face it, we’re not, and never will be), we won’t work well in NY OR Chicago, or for that matter any OTHER major city. But I think NY is being unfairly judged in the context here, and for you to favor Chicago over NY is unfair. Same situation in the city proper? You may not have fared any better in CHI than NY.
Just sayin’.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 19, 2008 at 10:58 am edit
Trick question Pistol Pete…
The answer is Chicago thinks its a small NY–and the people think they need to have an attitude to prove it. When in reality, like Jason above said, new yorkers are easier to deal with sometimes.
And Chicago is really a city of suburbs, never ending mazes of great lawns and barbecues! wink wink knyt and Lost!
In reality I can get just about everything I can from Chicago in Cleveland minus the traffic, BS, Chicago Cubs (Terrible, terrible franchise 1908 anyone?) I have a friend who is a few years older than me and just bought a house in Cleveland–he hates Chicago more than I do. He is the one that said he wanted to raise lake Michigan 100 ft.
In essence Chicago
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 19, 2008 at 1:23 pm edit
….Chicago sucks
I’ve made my piece with certain suburbs though. The one I am from got rated #1 suburb by chicago magazine a few years back its expensive now..
But in the early 90s i remember having a drug house on the street and some redneck neighbors. not that it was ever that bad but it was not as yuppie as it is now, more country if you will …Elmhurst woot. Saw some jackass in a red ferrari this weekend.
But the city can go #### itself expecially ######## that think its better than the suburbs. i had to go to high school with those pollocks and deigos that think theirs is the “best in the world.” Truly the worst of humanity in Cook County Illinois–Good thing everyone that lives in lake and dupage provides them with their jobs–not to say there isn’t a few good people in Cook.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 19, 2008 at 1:57 pm edit
Love – My feelings have changed since I lived there. For years I simply didn’t care all that much. But now there are 2 reasons why I feel about it now the way I do.
1 – Giants
2 – Jets
‘Nuff said. ;)
franktown Says:
August 19, 2008 at 10:34 pm edit
Pistol Pete’s is a bar somewhere in Wisconsin.
Is that where you got your name?
August 22, 2008 at 12:17 am edit
No that’s what my boss called me. After the late great Pistol Pete Maravich (basketball player).. By the way I saw in the news today that the retiring Illinois state senator Emil Jones wants to appoint his 31 year old son as the new state senator. Similar to what Stroger did with his kid, the Daleys, etc. Is Cook county a run like the British Monarchy or what??? Anyway, happy the summers almost over so the tourists from Iowa, Kansas etc who come to Chicago for a relatively cheap summer weekend and various street riff raff can pack it up for another year !!!!
DarcKnyt Says:
August 22, 2008 at 10:05 am edit
Pistol Pete — NO KIDDING!! How the F**K does this guy get to “appoint” the NEXT SENATOR??? Isn’t that an ELECTED POSITION??? WTF???
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 22, 2008 at 11:31 am edit
And as usual no one is going to complain. The true “tough” Chicago way. I’m so lucky to be going to a school in another state. Can’t wait to get out of here Sunday.
Pistol Pete–that guy was incredicble–the maravich guy–saw a movie on the guy. he would do free throws all day, literally
franktown Says:
August 22, 2008 at 12:09 pm edit
J.R. you’re leaving Chicago? — OMFG
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 22, 2008 at 6:06 pm edit
Franktown you ####. I want to kill you. I want to kill everyone from Indiana. I hope you rent from my uncle’s building you ####, I want all the money you spend in Chicago to directly profit someone in my family. And I mean that in a postive way, if that makes sense.
Have a nice day!
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 22, 2008 at 11:36 pm edit
Pete – yep, the Chicago Monarchy, we have it in spades.
Frank – JR’s only been here on a visit, you know. He hasn’t lived here in a while, that’s why he feels like he does now, because he’s seen something better. )
JR – now now, no homicide here! Put the beer down!
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 23, 2008 at 4:18 pm edit
But its Franktown. he is an auto typing bot for all i know. I could be a spam bot and you would never know!
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 24, 2008 at 12:15 am edit
Lately I’ve been paranoid and I think everyone is a spam bot. How do I know other blogs are not elaborate spam programs. hmmmmmm. Franktown could be a Daley programmed spam bot…(Chicago is great, Chicago is life, Chicago Cubs go cubs go!)
christian Says:
August 24, 2008 at 2:49 am edit
I would like to say that i love your blog darcsfalcon.wordpress.com a lot
now.. back to business haha
I cant say that i agree with what you wrote… care to explain more?
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 25, 2008 at 1:58 am edit
JR – No one’s going to waste an elaborate spam program on my little blog. No worries dude.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 25, 2008 at 2:03 am edit
Christian – I’m glad you like my blog.
No. I’m not going to explain more. I have 14 posts in which I’ve already explained, including this one, if you’ve read it.
Sorry you disagree. Perhaps you should start your own blog at http://www.wordpress.com, since this isn’t a public forum.
BTW, I removed the link to your page. WordPress believes it to be a spam page.
Thanks for stopping by. )
Buddy Says:
August 25, 2008 at 6:38 am edit
My family and I escaped from Chicago last April, and we’ve really never been happier. It’s amazing how in other parts of the country, people are not these passive aggressive idiots who think “culture” involves eating tubes of ground- up lips and assholes and fat pizza so acidic and thick it could gag a horse. The “theatre” in Chicago was a farce as well. Productions that played in New York months or years ago, and usually cheesily executed. Oprah and the organized criminal….the two main things that Chicago brought to the table..enough said.
No wait, that’s actually not enough. The weather there SUCKED. Hot sticky summers, and ball blistering winters. We live in the sun and mid 70s now. HaHa. We don’t vacation in it only two weeks a year. And we can actually drive our vehicle without being halted by some traffic jam or damn road construction (is the entire state of Illinois still under construction-of course it is) I guess the thing I will not miss the most will be the attitude of most people in that God forsaken crud hole. Goodbye Chicago. You were the foxy looking girl in high school who everyone wanted to do, but nobody ever really likes because she is shallow and has no brains. By the way, this forum was created for people who hate Chicago, so if you wanting totalk great things about the “mudhole of the prairie”, take your delusional, racist, suburbanite, yuppy, business scumbag attitude over to one of the I Love Chicago websites.
DarcKnyt Says:
August 25, 2008 at 8:07 am edit
Buddy — Well said! Bravo! And I sure envy your escape! Someday the Falcon and I hope to achieve escape velocity too, and launch to someplace like you’re describing. Sounds like paradise … NO TRAFFIC and ROAD CONSTRUCTION.
Pray for us, oh Anti-Shitcagoans!
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 25, 2008 at 12:17 pm edit
pistolpete and buddy, bravo!
I did the New York to Chicago route and became absolutely disappointed when all the nice things I heard about Chicago before I moved here (from the people living in the area) turned out to be half-truths or simply delusional lies… I can hardly find anything good to say about Chicago (maybe besides a lot of good blues clubs). In my opinion Chicago is a poor-man’s New York, a big city but without the glamour, culture and education. People mentality resembles small town folks’: parochial, close-minded and makes dealing with others more difficult than in New York. Anyone trying to compare Chicago to New York in ANY aspect is clearly delusional, unless you truly believe Tribune is New York Times, Cubs are Yankees and Cadillac Theater is Broadway but then you should probably seek professional help.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 25, 2008 at 12:36 pm edit
Pisttol Pete–to cheer you up, I never had anything to compare Chicago till until I got the F-bomb out of Chicago for college. I was probably on par with Franktown at one time till people asked, “WTF is wrong with you?” The answer to that question was being from the collective cult like area of the city-state of Chicago.
You know I’ve heard of people moving out East and never returning to Chicago. I’ve never lived out east and was raised in Chicago area. It took me a while, but I later figured out there was something terribly wrong with Chicago.
Chicago is one of the worst places to live in the Mid-west, as the atitude of the people pretend they are something they are not. The rest of the Mid-west does not act the way Chicago acts. I may need to leave the entire Mid-west just to escape people that think Chicago is any sort of good place to move–thinking any one of the 2 coasts or texas.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 25, 2008 at 6:10 pm edit
Buddy – “people are not these passive aggressive idiots who think “culture” involves eating tubes of ground- up lips and assholes and fat pizza so acidic and thick it could gag a horse ROFLMAO! That was funny! I hate the pizza here so much!
Thanks for stopping by! I hope to see you again, and I totally envy your chance at escape!
Lost – Delusional lies describes it best I think. )
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 26, 2008 at 2:56 pm edit
Thanks. On the subject of pizza… While in New York I already knew Chicago is the birthplace of American style pizza and having eaten at PizzaUno in New York I expected Chicago’s pizza to be superb and all over the place. To my surprise I found that there are not as many pizzerias in Chicago as in New York, few sell pizza by the slice (who needs entire pizza?) and most importantly Chicago’s pizza is terrible. According to my pizza contacts in New York it is all about the cheese or their mixture used in the preparations of pizza. Seven cheeses pizza is not unusual and I have no idea what they use instead in Chicago. Pizza here has no taste at all….
PS. What’s up with Chicagoans tendency to call “plain pizza” (no toppings, just cheese) a “cheese pizza”? Is there a pizza without cheese? ;)
DarcKnyt Says:
August 26, 2008 at 3:28 pm edit
Lost — Not sure what it’s called in other places, but in CA when I grew up, when you wanted a pizza with no additional toppings, it’s a “cheese pizza”. So, that’s not a Shitcago thing. Just FYI.
raga6 Says:
August 26, 2008 at 5:12 pm edit
We say cheese pizza in Texas too.
franktown Says:
August 26, 2008 at 5:41 pm edit
Lost—- NYC pizza was flatter than a grannie’s chest. Plus, NYC pizza has all this grease and shit collected on top of the cheese, and the cheese isn’t even gooey. It’s crispy and burnt. Sick! I’ll take the ethnic food and knishes that NYC specializes in over their nasty pizza any day.
To all Chicago pizza haters — Have you ever tried stuffed pizza? Deep dish and stuffed pizza are Chicago specialties. Whenever I eat them I swear, I want to fuck them. Oh, they’re so damn good. The breadiness of them, the gooeyness of the cheese, the rich tomato flavor, the fillings in between the bread… Where’s the cream filling????
franktown Says:
August 26, 2008 at 5:41 pm edit
Pizza in Texas??? WTF do they make them on? Enchiladas?
raga6 Says:
August 26, 2008 at 6:30 pm edit
Wow! How enlightened you are Frank! I bet you think you’re funny too! Also, I think it’s tortillas you’re thinking of, not enchiladas. Enchiladas are very good but if you’ve ever seen one you know that making a pizza on one just wouldn’t be practical, but nice try. Really. You also seem to have a real opinion on a place you’ve never been. I guess you’re just one of “those kinds” of people.
Now you don’t want to get into it with me on the differences between Chicago and Texas. Specifically Houston and Chicago. I ignored your childish plea on your site for a fight but I have done my research and I if absolutely HAVE TO I will bring out the big guns. And yes, I know how to use those guns. I’m from Texas. Because I’m a lady, I don’t unless I have to.
franktown Says:
August 26, 2008 at 6:44 pm edit
Bring it on!!!! Bring it!!!
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 26, 2008 at 8:05 pm edit
Chicago style pizza represents its unrefined farmland culture: if it is greasy, it there is a lots of it then it is good. Applies to all the food I tasted in Chicago and also explains the number of overweight people in here. Search the web, New York pizza wins all the contests, then again having Little Italy and the largest italian population makes it easy to figure out the result…
New Yorkers are blessed with five thousand UN diplomats, numerous executives from foreign companies located around Wall Street and uncounted celebrities whose money make sure everything New York delivers is top notch. They have something to compare the food in New York to… Money talks, bullshit walks…
Of course from your Indiana perspective Chicago food must be a bliss: the same farmland culture and attitude towards food (see above).
About the cheese pizza, I will never get it: all pizza is cheese. There is no pizza without cheese so calling a “plain slice” a “cheese slice” is redundant and does not make any sense whatsoever.
Now talking about ethnic, almost all food in America is ethnic nowadays and since Taco Bells and Chipotle expansion it is hard to call it ethnic food anymore. Just like nobody calls pizza or bagels ethnic anymore.
I really miss my New York style pizza however you can still get in Chicago if you look really hard… ) The thing is that in New York it is almost at every corner. To my disappointment (another point against Chicago) Chicagoans chose to indulge in big corporate chain/franchise food instead of the original mom and pop restaurants and delis. Anything you say about Chicago you can’t accuse the city of being original in any aspect… Sheep mentality.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 26, 2008 at 8:41 pm edit
Lost – Chicago is a 1-cheese town! And it sucks. (
Frank – Yes, I’ve had deep-dish here. Sheesh, you think after 3 decades I haven’t had deep-dish or eaten at Uno’s, or Gino’s East? C’mon! And I’m sorry – you shouldn’t have to use a knife and fork to eat a piece of pizza.
raga6 Says:
August 26, 2008 at 9:53 pm edit
Frank – I don’t know your email so I can’t send you the scary but true facts. Vanessa is going to send you all the information within a few days via email. When you get it and look it over, get back to me. I will probably accept your apology then. Or probably not. )
Buddy Says:
August 26, 2008 at 11:49 pm edit
Not very impressed with living in Chicago after traveling to other great cities in America. Think about Chicago for a moment. It’s whole premise is to out-do NewYork, which it can never do, unless we talk about the cost of rent. In a Travel magazine online survey that ran for months, Chicago ranked near the top in only 2 of over 25 categories. Chi-town is known mainly for its drastically changing climate and the only real history here involves mass rioting and 1920s gang activity. Not really the image that other cities promote is it? Philly and Boston have rich Revolutionary histories, New York has it’s tremendous shopping and theatre districts. Chicago? Crabby overweight people, second rate, cheesy theatre productons, terrible public transit, road construction and traffic jams at every turn, escalating crime, and out of control taxes. Cook County Illinois experienced one of the highest population decreses in America last year. People are starting to catch on that there is less to Chicago than meets the eye. Also documented, there are less personal freedoms in Chicagoland than in any other metro area in the US.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 27, 2008 at 12:42 am edit
Everyone here (except for elizabeth) doesn’t seem to be from Chicagopolisland.
Personally, I really don’t have much to compare Chicago to because I’ve only lived in one other place: Cincinnati–where I’m at now.
It wasn’t till I left that I realized, one day literally one day, that Chicago has some serious problems and much of what I was fed from youth–from the bullshit of Chicago being “where its at” to people at my high school saying “its the best in the city”–its all a load of shit. nearly everything Chicagoans feed you isn’t the truth. I’d give Chicago the right to brag if all their “great” attributes were really there–in this way Chicago is pretentious and phony.
I don’t even trust civilization anymore. I couldn’t imagine why anyone would want to move to new york (a place 3 times the size of chicago) anymore or any big city–what city isn’t a pain in the ass?
Wyoming here i come!
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 27, 2008 at 12:46 am edit
I still just can’t stand people here telling me they want to move to chicago. i usually flip out and say NO, NO DAMN YOU! STAY HERE! Then people tell me to chill and I’m like DON’T DO IT HEED MY WARNING MUHHHa HHHAAA HHAAAA!
I think if I was out east or west people would be less likely to say, “I want to move to chicago!”
DarcKnyt Says:
August 27, 2008 at 12:34 pm edit
Buddy — I’m lovin’ your statements, man. Good, clear stuff and dead on the money, too. All Chicago is about, its whole reason for existence, is to try and one-up New York, somehow, someway, someday. It’s not happened yet, and never will. JEEZ, after 9/11 — and on the DAY OF THE EVENT! — Shitcago news stations were all screaming about how Shitcago was on the list, we were next, the Sears Tower was targeted … 3,000 people lost their lives, but Shitcago was about its own “role” in the event, even the same day it happened. As soon as news coverage reverted back to local affiliates, that’s all we saw here. It made me want to gag then, and still makes me sick now.
That’s Chicago in a nutshell. That’s the attitude, the mentality, the head-up-the-ass-edness of the place. I wasn’t here three weeks before people were telling me how Chicago is “Number 1 in so many things … so many things … .” I kept asking for a list, but never got one. Finally someone said, “Publishing!” And I replied, “Why are all major publications and publishing houses in New York? Can you even name one in Chicago?”
Long pause. “Well, we’re number one in so many things … .”
“Oh, I know! R. R. Donnelly!”
“So you’re number one in phone books?”
“Uh … yeah. Well, they do more than that, right? Don’t they?”
I shrugged. “What else?”
“Oh … you know … so many things … so many … .”
“Well, what’s San Francisco number one in?? Huh?”
“Beating the Chicago sports teams. How’s that?”
No further discussions.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 27, 2008 at 1:03 pm edit
Knyt I agree completely on your opinions on what buddy said.
Do you know how this hopeless rivalry started between Chicago and New York? I don’t think Philadelphia or Boston try to outdue New York or compare themselves to them, do they? And I’m talking with exceptions of sports rival teams.
New York has tall buildings, Chicago builds the tallest in the world.
New York has pizza, Chicago tries to outdue them
New York has the MTA, Chicago has a sloppy CTA no one should be proud of , yet some are
just general examples why– does chicago try to compare itself to New York City?
DarcKnyt Says:
August 27, 2008 at 3:02 pm edit
J. R. — I have no idea when it started. It might have to do with rival factions of organized crime back in pre-prohibition days, and the movement of money and alcohol DURING prohibition.
Somewhere along the line Shitcago became the “Second City” and has never been happy with that delegation (and it’s not true, either — they fall MUCH farther down the list in a LOT of ways than second). So they try to “one-up” NY (or any place else, I guess, right down to terrorist attacks on other cities) for … well, I’d love to mention a reason here, but it’s not going to happen.
Shitcago isn’t Second City, it’s Second-Rate city. It has been for years. And what’re they going to do now that the Sears Tower isn’t the tallest building in the world anymore? They’re one claim to fame is lost.
No, Boston and Philly tout their long-standing, very decorated pasts and historical significance in American history. Among the oldest of states/cities/colonies, whatever, with colored and storied generations behind them. They offer what they offer. They’re proud of what they are, and don’t seek to be anything else.
Shitcago is covetous central.
And while a portion of the midwest lacks a palate, the poor taste of Shitcago isn’t illustrated in places like Kansas City, home of sweet sticky barbecue, or St. Louis, known for it’s regional favorite foods and beer, or even Ohio, birthplace of Chili-Mac and Cincy-style chili.
And I don’t give a crap what anyone says, “Stuffed Pizza” isn’t pizza. It’s something else altogether. When I want that garbage, fine, nothing else will do (and that’s never happened). But when I want pizza, the closest I can get around here (meaning in IL) is Domino’s or Pizza Butt. Nothing else is worth choking down.
God, I’d kill for Straw Hat. (
But I actually hope they NEVER come to Shitcago, where people wouldn’t know a good pizza if fell out of the sky, landed on their faces and started to wiggle.
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 27, 2008 at 9:44 pm edit
There could not be any rivalry between New York and Chicago.
First of all New York has 10 million people and the entire metro area with northern New Jersey and Connecticut and Long island suburbs is about 20 million. Second, historically New York City has been a center of culture, art and intellectualism. Read a history book. Chicago on the other hand has been a large slaughterhouse in the cornfield that is struggling to redefine itself into a modern city. Rivalry between New York and Chicago? Is there a real rivalry between the Sox and the Yankees? Could there be any? London, Paris, Tokyo, Berlin are the city that could be New York’s rivals but Chicago? Oh, please…
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 27, 2008 at 10:27 pm edit
And I’m not saying I compare it, I say others do.
I’m not saying it needs to be compared.
Apples and Oranges.
All I’m saying is Chicago sucks. You’re from East, I’m not. Interesting to get your take on it.
FALCON– my brother just got back from San Francisco–he lives in Vegas now–he has a girlfriend that moved home to Frisco–you might like that– here is a quote he said to me…
“Save up some money and go to San Francisco.”
Me: “Why don’t you go there?”
Him:”Just to visit, the weather is like perfect all the the time”
Me:”I think the weather is perfect in Cincinnati because the weather is such shit in Chicago clocked it at at least 20 degrees warmer one day”
Him: “The weather is even shity in the summer in chicago its all hot and sticky”
He said he may move back to Chicago for law school and I’m like you are going to want to kill yourself in the winter coming from vegas weather. He agreed. I have a hard time going back home in the winter.
Anyone have any doubts as to why Joy Division (for those of you who know the band) one of my favorite bands?— reminds me of home-illinois. lol!
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 27, 2008 at 10:43 pm edit
JR – You’re right – he’s going to want to die if he comes back here for law school, after living in Vegas. The winter will be so much worse after that. You forget what cold is when you’ve lived away from it for a while.
LOL, SF weather isn’t perfect ALL the time … but a lot of the time it’s pretty nice. )
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 28, 2008 at 6:13 am edit
I did not snap at you, I snapped all of the Chicago folks I encountered always want to compare Chicago to New York and I can’t stand it as much as hearing praises of the worst winless streak baseball team in history – the Cubs. What a losers… What’s up with this Chicago’s inferiority complex that resurfaces all the time. Is this because a part of the traditional farmland / city – blue collar / white collar resentment? Sure Chicago is richer that most of the farmland but putting a Benz in your garage does not make you an intellectual overnight.
I am with Buddy in his description of Chicago, everything here is second rate. Yes, I know the ’second-city” term is related to the Big Fire but somehow Chicago feels like second rate or rather third rate city. It takes years if not centuries to build a tradition of enlightenment and excellence and I am still waiting for someone to tell me in what area Chicago actually excels… I mean really, with hard data to support it and not just wishful thinking and talking about the skyline as if all the other cities were flat. Because I can show you many areas in which Chicago is absolutely mediocre if not outright terrible.
to franktown,
That stuff on pizza is called pizza sauce and gives it a taste and flavor. Deep dish pizza is available all over the country and not only in Chicago. Travel a little and you will know more.
DarcKnyt Says:
August 28, 2008 at 8:36 am edit
Lost — In what area Shitcago actually excels? Simple.
Stupidity, inferiority, losertude, assholitude … and shittiness.
How’s that?
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 28, 2008 at 9:51 am edit
I would add arrogance and ignorance to this list as I haven’t seen that many arrogant and ignorant people in my life. Chicago is isolated from the outside world as there are no other major cities within hundred of miles, it believes in its greatness just because there is nothing else to compare itself to other than the rest of the corn-belt. Proof? Chicagoans not only favorably compare their miserable excuse for a city to New York and LA but look down at the rest of Midwest with disgust.
franktown Says:
August 28, 2008 at 12:30 pm edit
I don’t know where you get your ideas from Lost.
Chicagoans love New York City, and don’t put ourselves on their level. We look at our city as a completely different one, with different cultures and feel.
The only people who speak of the so called “rivalry” between New York and Chicago are people who look down on Chicago and use New York’s greatness to bash it.
realr Says:
August 28, 2008 at 1:06 pm edit
Well, I’m out of this pathetic city. I just came back from a week long trip to California (part business, part personal), and I will be out of this city by the end of September.
My transfer finally came through (I was in our West Coast office) and I signed the lease to an apt. while I was out there, so this is a done deal. I am sure that pathetic whiny, racist, crackers, will say “get the fuck out” (you have to remember Shitcagoans vocabulary is limited to grunting sounds, and putting their hands over the months like little girls, such pathetic people who live in this giant mudhole).
Well, at this point, I am the one who will be 2000+ miles away so whine all who want to you racist fat fucks, I am out of here.
I rented a car the week I was there, and drove around visiting family who lives out there, and going to our office out there, and back to where I was staying, and the people out there are nothing like the people here.
I was in big cities and drove around some rural areas in California, and 99% of the people, from co-workers in the West Coast office to the supermarket and bank tellers I went to, were MORE than friendly, polite, courteous.
Compared to here, where people are nowhere near friendly, racist as all get out, pathetic just miserable people, going out West was like a breath of fresh air (and considering this smelly shithole) literally a breath a fresh air.
Well enough, less than 30 days, I can leave, and BTW, I visited my best friend and his wife the weekend before he left (my Bridgeport friend) for dinner, and we were talking politics and how the city has become so trashy. He was born and raised here, and he said all his friends are all leaving, one (a mutual friend of ours), she left for NYC, another to LA, now me, and he said to me, “If things don’t improve in this city, my wife and I and son and leaving out West.
He then talked about how these “out of town motherfuckers” really ruined this city (and he is not wholly wrong about this). He has been a Sox fan (personally to me I don’t care about either team, but he is an “old school” Chicagoan, and he respects that), and said how after the Sox won the title, all these wanna be fans starting polluting the games. He then said “I guarantee you, if the Cubs were to win the series, these assholes that currently go to the games will disappear, and the attendance will go back to the levels they were in the 1980s, these out of town motherfuckers are assholes, they don’t give a shit”.
His family and his wife’s family have city workers all over , cops, firemen, etc., and at one point my friend’s brother told him to become a cop because he is a big linebacker type of person, he would make an intimidating cop, and he would do well on the CPD test, but after awhile he said this city, and that job would get him down. He loved this city, but what has happened to it by these miserable people is just pathetic.
While I was out West, people were shocked the tax rate here is 10.5%, they were saying “are you kidding, that’s ridiculous”. I saw some local news channels, and at least when things get out of hand in California, there’s Proposition whatever to try and have some accountability somewhere, not like here where when the tax rate goes to 14% very soon, people will try to act tough, but then cry like little babies and say nothing, and will do nothing. You deserve all of this, raise it to 25%, and since you did nothing to stop it, you deserve all that happens to you regarding this tax increase.
Also, I noticed, I was in a few airports transferring planes, back and forth, and this is the only city that has all this bullshit propaganda about Chicago all over the fucking place. All over the terminal and baggage claim, they had these loud PA announcements about Chicago, it’s glorious history (1920s-1940s, obviously we don’t want to talk about it’s pathetic recent history), and posters all over the walls “The mayor welcomes you”, Chicago welcomes you”, like wallpaper all over the airport. This city has such an inferiority complex, in the three other airports I was in, this is the only city, that has to place 15′x15′ posters all over the airport to try to prove itself to visitors.
“Check out our undercooked fatty foods” “Check out our exorbitant tax rate”.
Well, if my friend and his wife and son leave, the last of the “good” Chicagoans will leave, and this city will become this “out of town motherfuckers” trailer trash, racist haven of miserable people.
I am out, this city can do whatever it wants, I am going to have no part of it.
Buddy Says:
August 28, 2008 at 1:53 pm edit
‘Chicagoans love New York City’
Yeah right! (sarcasm) I ‘ve lived in Schiller Park for nearly 15 years now. I have NEVER heard anyone say anything positive about New York. Not once. It’s more like “New York is a sewer” or “you ain’t missing nothing by going to New York” or “our pizza is better” or “our buildings are better”
They are of course entitled to their opinion, but I find Chicagoans have a pretty narrow view of ALL other cities. They will put down smaller cities like St. Louis or Milwaukee and also put down New York or LA. The facts are the facts, Chicago is not a leader in anything right now, except negative things like traffic snarls. Not even their skyline, because as much as I think Chicago has a nice skyline, even I have to admit it has become muddled looking from many angles now. New York’s skyline is so diverse and vast that you have to be miles away or up in a plane to take it all in. New York has nearly 6000 highrises. Chicago? Just over 1000. New York has the famous subway. Chicago the L train. New York has the Yankees and their many titles. Chicago has the pathetic Cubs. New York is on the Atlantic ocean. Chicago is on “the Lake”
New York has the legendary Central Park. Chicago has the uninspiring Millenium Park. New york is THE theatre capitol of the states. Chicago can’t even compare to the Twin Cities in theatre. The only way I see Chicago as an advantage is the cost of living. That is one reason why I moved here from SanFran. But even that is gotten out of control. It’s OK to have civic pride. What I find is that Chicagoans are a little too defensive about their city, and they want very badly to be #1. Unfortunatley we have a long way to go, and not alot of room to talk down to others.
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 28, 2008 at 2:15 pm edit
RealR – You did it! You’re escaping! Congratulations! I so envy you! Good luck with packing and all that – goodness you’re going to be busy the next couple of months! Please don’t be a stranger though, and let us know how things go in your new home. )
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 28, 2008 at 2:24 pm edit
Buddy – Welcome back, it’s good to see you again. )
I’m a little confused though – I thought you and your family moved out of Chicago a few months ago?
I had to laugh – in all my years here I never heard anyone say anything good about NY either. One thing I DID hear was, “They think they’re so much better than us!” LOL
I don’t think Chicagoans realize how poor of a reputation they have among New Yorkers, and Californians. I hear so many people say that Chicago has an inferiority complex but I disagree – I think it’s a superiority complex. Chicagoans think they’re better and don’t believe it’s possible that anyone else would think otherwise, either.
DarcKnyt Says:
August 28, 2008 at 2:54 pm edit
LOML — You’re right, the complex is a superiority complex, not an inferiority one. But I find it amusing that they have to advertise how great they are in their own airport.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 28, 2008 at 3:56 pm edit
Congrats Realr, getting the fuck out of Chicago. Truly a miserable place.
I’m never moving back to Illinois.
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 28, 2008 at 4:03 pm edit
Buddy do you know what shiller park spelled backwards is???
Krap Rellish!– coincidence? I think not!
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 28, 2008 at 4:10 pm edit
Lost –
didn’t mean to be rude– WLUW 88.7 FM independent radio in chicago was going to interview me for a post i wrote about logan square– i called the terms he e-mailed me as “shady” and the he didn’t call me back. Turns out he was really from the show. I may write a post about it until he puts me back on like he said he wanted to. I’ll put the e-mail out there so you can all e-mail them, I’m thinking.
He wouldn’t return calls or e-mails and left me hanging for an hour when he said he was going to interview me over the phone
Typical pretentious chicago right there for you, afraid to talk to their guests on the damn radio show–even after i apologized.
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 28, 2008 at 11:45 pm edit
DarcKnyt Says:
August 28, 2008 at 2:54 pm
LOML — You’re right, the complex is a superiority complex, not an inferiority one. But I find it amusing that they have to advertise how great they are in their own airport.
I still think this is a deep inferiority complex masquerading as superiority complex. That happens all the time. It’s called compensation.
Just after I moved from New York everyone I talked to at work tried to always make a point that “we have pretty much the same in Chicago”. At that time I did not give a damn, it took time before it got to me and then I started to really hear this BS and stupid comments about New York: rats, “they do not have alleys in New York!” etc etc. Stupid, because if this is what really catches your attention you are missing a lot. But Chicago is shallow anyways. Today we had visitors from Des Moines, man how everyone was trying to put down their city, not directly of course. New Yorkers are used to poeple from all over the world, nobody would ever do that. No insecurities there. Chicagoans on the other hand are such a schmucks… Have to feel better at the expense of someone else like they really have a reason to proud: capitol of the rust-belt and the corn-belt. Wow!
if you really want to defend Chicago, come up with something that makes sense… Chicago likes New York ) Yeah, right. First of all Chicago doesn’t like itself, the southside hates the northside, cubs fans were t-shirts “sox suck”… What are you talking about?
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 29, 2008 at 12:18 am edit
Anyone have any doubts as to why Joy Division (for those of you who know the band) one of my favorite bands?— reminds me of home-illinois. lol!
You mean Warsaw/New Order. I remember the music to be very “dark”. Have to listen to it again but I do not think you were thinking about “love will tear us apart, again” ? ;)
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 29, 2008 at 9:51 am edit
I don’t think its particularly dark, others do. Guy from Manchester, UK that reads my blog agrees with me–thats where they were from.
right Warsaw, JD and New Order are all the same people, minus lead singer Ian Curtis in New Order. Same band as that sang Love will tear us apart–the lead singers voice scares some people away–but after listening to a lot of music–i think his lyrics are the most unique part–plus he wrote a lot of the lyrics.
They have a really great performance in NYC in 1981, I think the DVD goes by “FACT 316″ Probably my top ten in live performances–up there with the talking heads “stop making sense” DVD
Lost In Chicago Says:
August 29, 2008 at 10:05 am edit
I will check it out…. By the way, I used to drive a limo in New York many many year ago and once had David Byrne in the cab… The guy is a nut, the act is nevertheless excellent. “Burning down the house”, was that about Chicago’s Big Fire? ;)
Why Houston is better than Chicago « Knytstalker’s Weblog Says:
August 29, 2008 at 11:17 am edit
[…] in Chicago and HATES it. Hates it so much she started a wonderful little section on her blog about why Chicago sucks. There is a wonderful little man named Frank on her blog that for some strange reason loves […]
J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
August 30, 2008 at 2:05 am edit
David Byrne in a cab, NYC 1980 something? That must have been some rocking time, especially to be around there. E-mail me on what he was doing and I’ll do a post on it if you want.
My friend had all this talking heads stuff on vinyl–remain in the light is probably my favorite album–don’t know if you were ever into them.
shitcagoan Says:
August 31, 2008 at 11:23 pm edit
Well, here I am in Florida. I’ve got plenty of space for those of you who need help escaping (actually tons of space for half the price I was paying and this was made in the last 10 years). I’m going to start digging an underground railroad to my house. If you guys wanna start digging this way, I’ll meet ya in the middle. Good luck everyone! Shitcago will always be there, but you don’t have to be!
PS someone may have mentioned this already, but in spanish, cago is slang for shit. Shitcago says it all. Shit squared!
pps chicago sucks
shitcagoan Says:
August 31, 2008 at 11:25 pm edit
oh, hey darcs thanks again… would it be okay if I posted a link to this site on mine?
DarcsFalcon Says:
August 31, 2008 at 11:58 pm editShitcagoan – Hey you made it! Woo! Glad to hear you’re safe and sound! Staying out of Gustav’s way?

I’m getting my pick and shovel and maybe I’ll meet you in the middle there. ) Sounds like a plan to me. And I would be honored if you posted a link to me on your site. Please let me know your URL so I can put one in for you as well. )

DarcKnyt Says:
September 1, 2008 at 10:49 am editShitcagoan — Congrats, bud! You made it! D

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 2, 2008 at 11:16 am editShoitcagoan,

I am working on it as well, my target area: somewhere between Boca and Miami….

Anyways, wanted to pointe Chicagoans stupidity expressed by their elected officials: Chicago is seriously considering introducing a law that would ban texting on your mobile phone while walking on the crosswalk…. Wow, the governor is sending state police and possibly national guard to the city to stop escalating gang violence yet Chicago government is even more concerned about unsafe condition that is created by people with cell phones…
Can this city and its government be anymore out of touch with reality?

I suggest yet another official reason Chicago sucks: out of touch government.

Go, Cubs! Give us another 100 years without a title!

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 2, 2008 at 11:24 am editJR. That was in the nineties… CBGG was still a king.
What was he doing? I guess being himself ) – he is a kind of a nut job in a positive creative way, isn’t he? Anyways, I used to be a cabbie, and the code says whatever goes in the cab, stays in the cab… It is hard not to hear and see stuff though…
I guess most New York cabbies could write a book about things they heard and see and with the number of celebrities living in the city it could be interesting…
I am a big fan, by the way.


Lanny Says:
September 5, 2008 at 2:44 am editJust wanted everyone to know how bad the unemployment here in Chicago is. Yeh it’s bad everywhere. But man, it gets really expensive here looking for work, even using public transportation like CTA is difficult. Forget driving and parking, this place is a mess these days. Now I know why Chicago has one of the highest bicycle theft rates in the country. This place sure ain’t all its cracked up to be. And now my propery tax went up by $500. This is crazy!!

DarcKnyt Says:
September 5, 2008 at 7:54 am editLanny — Welcome! Yes, it’s horrid here, and I’ve been out of work more than I care to remember. My wife and I have suffered a lot through unemployment, so our prayers are with you that your period will be brief.

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 5, 2008 at 9:51 am editWelcome aboard Lanny. Darcsfalcon is the aircraft carrier of Chicago Sucks.

Chicago can’t get enough of your money even when you are way overtaxed.

Chicago had potential at one point, but it sucks more than ever now.

I’d be absolutely depressed if I owned property in Cook County, the place is a giant scam/joke on everyone.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 5, 2008 at 1:01 pm editLanny – Welcome to the club!

Are you A.K.A. “Buddy”?

Eileen Says:
September 8, 2008 at 7:37 pm editChicago does suck BIG TIME. I have lived in Northern Virginia, Alabama and South Carolina. When I had to come back here due to a divorce, it was depressing. I am happier now living in the suburbs of Chicago, but I could never live in the city. Being close to the city makes me a little nervous at times. Chicago is a crooked, crime-ridden, congested, overpriced, overrated place to live.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 8, 2008 at 9:42 pm editEileen – Welcome. ) You echo our thoughts nicely – crooked, crime-ridden, congested … all those things and more.

I’m curious about your time in N. VA – were you near DC? I have long wanted to go to the southwest corner of VA, so I’m always interested in the thoughts of anyone who’s lived even in the same state, lol.

Hope to see you again. )

DarcKnyt Says:
September 9, 2008 at 8:29 am editEileen — Howdy and welcome! Like you, we couldn’t survive in the city proper either, and I have lived there to know. I just couldn’t take it. We want to move to Virginia so bad we can taste it.

Hope you come by again!

Jmat Says:
September 9, 2008 at 10:06 pm editOK… I’ve been reading this for a while now, and I wanted to put in my 2 cents.

Now, I love Chicago. Hate me if you want, but it’s where I stand. To me, Chicago is a great big city, and, being born and raised there, it will always be my hometown. But I know the feeling of not liking a place, and I know that no that Chicago isn’t perfect. No city is perfect and no city will ever be perfect. Personally, I hate Phoenix and L.A…. Phoenix is a dusty, hot, dirty city that can’t decide if it wants to join the modern world or not, and Los Angeles is a pretentious, over hyped place with bland attractions.

But this is my opinion and I know there are people who will swear up and down that I’m wrong and these cities are wonderful. Good for them.

I’m not mad that you guys hate Chicago, and I understand that it isn’t your cup of tea, but we do have culture and things to do that isn’t “sitting around and getting hammered”. We have world class museums, wonderful festivals and concerts, top notch performance acts and plenty of outdoor activities to do, including fishing, boating, hiking through the woods, sledding; etc.

And as a Chicagoan, I’ve always thought of myself as thoughtful and helpful whenever possible. Big cities will always have rude people, but you must realize that when you hate something, it flaws are more prevalent to you, as this is all you see. I’m not criticizing anyone in particular, but I think you all probably met more friendly people then you realized, but just didn’t make note of it. Of course, I will not say that you may have met the most unsavory individuals Chicago has to offer, as that too is a possibility.

I truly am sorry when someone doesn’t like my hometown, and as much as I wish it weren’t true, not everyone will love Chicago. I know many who have moved here from other places and they love it. They even love the changing seasons and cold winters.

I found Los Angeles weather to be a bit monotonous. Hell, people out there get excited about rain in the winter… weird, huh?

But everything is opinion and respect everyone’s opinion as personal fact. But I hope someday you’ll back on your time here and have fonder memories. After all, there are worse places than Chicago ;)

franktown Says:
September 10, 2008 at 12:23 pm editJmat-

Thanks for defending our city, but to tell you the truth, here’s not the place to do it. Ness is very picky about her posters here and wants this to exclusively be an anti-Chicago haven.

Thus, I suggest you come to my site and speak positively, or go to other sites such as Citydata.com to speak highly of Chicago, and I agree with everything you say about the city too.

But, the only reason Ness and the others tolerate me here is because I’m pretty much a friend now, and I offer a good sense of comic relief, and in their eyes, “prove” their point.

So keep on going with your stuff, but I don’t suggest you argue here (Ness, I think I just said everything you were about to say, right?)haha

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 10, 2008 at 12:49 pm editFrank – No, that’s not what I was going to say. But I love you anyway. )

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 10, 2008 at 1:14 pm editJmat – First of all, welcome. I appreciate your $.02, even thought I don’t hold the same opinion you do. It’s good to like where you live, and in many ways, I envy you that feeling. I’ve longed for it myself for many years now.

My complaint has never been with the things to do around Chicago. Several commenters have mentioned those things, but they’re not really issues for me personally. Every city has museums and some form of theater, things of that nature. And I know Chicago can’t help it that the weather here sucks. It’s just a way of life and people cope as best they can. Some of us cope better than others.

This whole thing started pretty much as a joke in response to the Forbes article that came out early this year, and when I saw the number of hits I was getting, people searching for “Chicago sucks,” I realized I’d hit a nerve.

My complaints – at their heart – are really about the way the city and state government is run. There is so much corruption and mis-management, and yet no one seems willing to do anything but accept the status quo. No one votes the obviously corrupt out of office, no one does anything about it at all. No one is willing to clean house. Chicago could be a decent place to live if the people running it, and the state, weren’t so corrupt. How embarrassing and shameful is it that “Chicago politics” is synonymous with “dirty, corrupt, nepotism” and a host of other negatives? If enough people got on board, things could improve around here, and if blogging about the negative aspects of Chicagoland gets people on board, then I’ve achieved my objective.

Yes, I’m picky about some people who comment here. I am picky about a$$holes, those who come here chiefly to berate and insult those who disagree. Anyone who is respectful and courteous is welcome. In truth, Jmat, if we’d met more people like you here, many of us probably wouldn’t feel as strongly as we do. To lots of us, your attitude is the exception and not the rule. And I’m grateful you realize that you’re not going to change anyone’s mind who’s commented here. Our personal experiences are what they are, and no amount of arguing can change that, contrary to flame-thrower opinion.

What is most appreciated is your respect, thoughtfulness, and courtesy, despite your difference of opinion. I wish there were more like you around here. )

I hope you come back again, Jmat – it really has been nice chatting with you. )

Jmat Says:
September 10, 2008 at 1:49 pm editHa ha, machine politics. Yeah, I can understand the frustration of that. But I sort of like that straight forwardness of Chicago, even though I do completely agree with you. And sure, Chicago gives a lot of jobs to people who just sit around, doing nothing, but it will get better. This year Chicago cut thousands of city jobs to people who weren’t actually working.

It’s a start, right?

But most large cities have this problem. Just not on the scale Chicago does it on. I mean, have you ever heard of CalTrans?

Now there is some corruption. CalTrans (Short for California Transportation) is California’s road construction crew… and I swear it takes them YEARS to pave roads. There’s a bridge in Ventura they’ve been building for 20 years…. and it’s only a 1000 foot span! Personally I liked the way Phoenix did their roads. They closed it, paved it, and that was that.

But this is all to the tune of “No Place is Perfect.”

So, yes, I feel your pain, Falcon. It really is frustrating to see a place have so much corruption and no one seems to care. But I always comfort people with this saying of mine: At least you don’t live in Detroit.

And to FrankTown, don’t feel so lost with the people who don’t accept your opinion, because they feel just as frustrated you don’t accept theirs. So boast our city and exclaim your love for it, but don’t always expect others to follow suit. Some will, some won’t; but if we all practice accepting other for who they are, then the world, and not just Chicago, will better place to live.

Also, I’m already on city-data. My handle is johnmchicago

Nice speaking with you all.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 10, 2008 at 10:05 pm editJmat – I think the majority of job cuts took place due to the $425M shortfall the city is trying to deal with. Not positive on that, but that’s my understanding. Either way, it seems the only requirement to get a job with the city is to have “friend or family” on your resume.

No, it’s not Detroit, this is true. At the same time, why can’t it be better than it is? Why is the argument always, “at least it’s not as bad as [fill in city of choice here]. Imagine how it would feel if Chicago and IL were rated, “In the top 3 ‘Most Fiscally Responsible’ or ‘Lowest Unemployment’ or ‘Best Run’ cities/states in America!” Why can’t that be a goal? Know what I’m saying?

Cal-Trans? Yep, grew up in CA.

Nope, no place is perfect. But this is where I have to live right now, and I know it can be better.

And Franktown lost his boasting rights here since he got his own blog he can boast on. D

Glad you came back, Jmat. )

Lanny Says:
September 11, 2008 at 12:10 am editChicago? Bluk. A con for every pro. Besides the pretty downtown architecture, not much to like in that city anymore. Some of the far suburbs are OK, if not cookie cutter or strip-mallish. And to the other poster who said “at least we ain’t Detroit”, many areas of Chicago ARE very Detroit like. Some of the food is great in Chicago, but when you finally find a unique place you enjoy, it closes on you or you have to park ten blocks away and pay a small fortune. Many things are to do there are terribly overpriced and not worth the fuss. Taste Of Chicago comes to mind. The museums are nice, but not extraordinary. The payscale goes up when you live there, but the cost of living and taxes far exceed any extra money you make. Plus the weather sucks in the winter and the non existant spring , and even in the summer it’s humid. Not the easiest city to get around in if you drive. And if you take the train, you’ll probably be on forever. I give Chicago a thumb sideways.

Jmat Says:
September 11, 2008 at 3:43 am editI agree, there’s much the city could be doing to improve.

The city needs to re-vamp it’s public transportation. It’s ok right now, but it needs an overhaul for sure. I can only hope that if Chicago wins the 2016 Olympic Bid that that will be part of the project.

And Chicago does need to figure out a way to cut some of the taxes it has. Soda Pop tax? Come on.

And we really need to try to be greener. Daley made a good start, but it could be MUCH better. Portland has done so much with themselves, its amazing. Chicago should follow suit.

It’s depressing to see it listed as a Dirty City or Congested City on some website list, especially because I know there is potential to be so much more.

But Chicago has had change, and it’s enough to bring hope. I think one of the key factors of all these issues is Chicago’s geography, and by that I mean it being in the Rust Belt. Look at all the other cities in the Rust Belt and you’ll see the same issues: High Unemployment, Poor Infrastructure, Corrupt Politics. These can all be found in the Rust Belt. It’s almost a defining factor!

Cleveland, Detroit, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh… the list goes on. These Rust Belt cities have major problems and Chicago is no exception, but it does try.

We hardcore Chicagoans like to think our city is over the Rust Belt image and it isn’t…. yet. But progress comes slowly, and if you look for it, you’ll see it.

Chicago saved the Lakefront for parkspace instead of industry, it began city beautification initiatives like building new parks or planting more trees. It’s done much to try to invite more business into the downtown core, and many companies are looking at Chicago as a great place to set up shop (Boeing for example).

So while the city is indeed plagued with a myriad of problems, I know change is in the city. I only hope the change is for the good.

I have an interesting link you may all find intriguing. It’s a survey about the populace of 14 different cities and how happy they were to live there. Chicago placed… well, I’ll just let you read it.


I’d love to hear some comments on that story for sure! Even as a Chicagoan this still surprised the heck outta me!

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 11, 2008 at 12:25 pm editjmat

I actually respect that fact you like your hometown, people should be proud of where they are from but I think the reason this website exist is not that Chicago is not perfect, no city is, but because it is needed as a counterweight to all that Chicago praising that goes on all the time in any media outlets here.. Midwest in general is said to be “great on denial” but in Chicago this takes an absurd turn of praising anything, anytime regardless of its real quality. It is as people in Chicago are trying very hard to be very positive all the time and need a constant reassurance from the media that the reality in fact is so peachy and a reason to be happy….
Is Daley controlling all local media? How come no media outlets ever question why roads in Chicago are so bad? How come nobody asks why public education is a failure? How come per capita crime is higher in Chicago than in New York or LA (see my post TOP TEN REASON CHICAGO SUCKS)?
Is the entire city on Prozac or would rather focus on Olympics as if there were no other pressing issues? Happiness is out ultimate goal, but happiness based on denial is a short-sighted recipe for disaster as you have to face the reality at some point no matter what. Wishful thinking cannot replace action and start any action you have to acknowledge the faults, but… people in Chicago instead choose to be “happy”. Well, good luck, reality with catch up with you sooner or later.

PS. You think public transportation is OK now? Really? How come all the EL lines go to downtown so if you do not live or work downtown you are screwed or have to take a ride downtown first anyway?

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 11, 2008 at 4:34 pm editChicago sucks thats my — 2 cents.

It doesn’t suck for any one particular reason–it sucks for a multitude of reasons, but it sucks mainly because everyone seems in denial as Lost said.

People have nothing to compare it to because it is isolated and they have a screwed version of what the rest of the Mid-west is like and the country.

Chicagoans are the first to say another Mid-westetern city sucks, when they have their mulititude of problems that don’t and will NEVER be fixed with current, unchallenged leadership.

Like me (from the suburbs there and have numerous family and friends in the city and suburbs althouigh lessoning) and another one of friends that live in Ohio now says. At least we can wake up in the morning in Ohio here and legally strap a gun on ourself.

Why you still enjoy it there baffles me Jmat.

Jmat Says:
September 11, 2008 at 5:39 pm editLost In Chicago Says:
“PS. You think public transportation is OK now? Really? How come all the EL lines go to downtown so if you do not live or work downtown you are screwed or have to take a ride downtown first anyway?”

Yes, that is a large issue with the L. However, I had heard on WGN that Metra has plans to extend their service to downtown. This was about a month ago so it’s recent news as well.

Now, J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal), I didn’t say another Midwestern city sucks, I said all Rust Belt Cities have problems. St. Louis isn’t a Rust Belt city and it’s doing fine.

And being able to “strap a gun” on myself doesn’t define a good city. If you look at L.A. and NYC they both have huge gun regulations to help control the problem of everyone strapping guns on themselves. You can’t even buy an airsoft gun in the 5 boroughs of New York!

It’s becoming apparent some people on here are becoming offended I like the place I live, so I will say no more.

Thank you for being patient and respectable. I really enjoy a good sporting argument! I hope you all have a good day and that your travels will take you to the place you will love to call home.

P.S. I don’t think Chicago is perfect either, to me, it’s all about Honolulu. I love those beaches!


Jmat Says:
September 11, 2008 at 5:41 pm editWhoops, I mean to edit something above.

When I said “Metra has plans to extend their service to downtown.” I meant AROUND downtown. As in a loop connecting the suburbs.

Sorry =P

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 11, 2008 at 5:53 pm editJmat–

I’m of your breed as I’m from the area. Its called a joke. Strapping on the gun. OR a constitutional right, which Illinois doesn’t really believe in.

And I didn’t say you said the other cities sucks but I’m sure you know the mentality there of “No place but Chicago, No teams but Chicago teams, no place like home.”

Lets get real Chicago is no better than Cleveland or Cincinnati or even Milwaukee. Having more people or a few more museums does not make it better or not comparable to other cities in the region. Everyone always jumps to “OH NEW YORK” Or “OH LA”–those cities are a thousand miles away.

Nor am I trying to compare it to NYC or LA, as it is neither of those and that is basically changing the subject (and diverting the issues of Chicago) as neither of those cities are within range of Chicago.

Glad you like Chicago. I’m glad I’m not there. And it is my home.

leftchicago Says:
September 12, 2008 at 2:34 am editwow… I posted back when this just started, my my how this site has grown. I am now out of there and soooo glad. Life is much better. )

DarcKnyt Says:
September 12, 2008 at 8:25 am editLeftchicago — Congratulations on achieving escape velocity! We envy you!

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 12, 2008 at 11:41 am editLeftChicago – Hey! LeavingChiTown! How’re you doing?! Wow, it’s been a long time – did you make it to FL? How’s things? Tell us about life on the outside! LOL

Yeah, we’ve grown a bit since you were last here! This place has had it’s more popular moments and we’ve formed a sort of clique here, with a few regulars who check in now and again. It’s taken on a life of its own, I think.

So tell us what it was like to finally leave Chicago? How long have you been gone? Did you have to deal with Gustav down in FL?

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 12, 2008 at 2:53 pm editJmat Says:
September 11, 2008 at 3:43 am
“The city needs to re-vamp it’s public transportation. It’s ok right now, but it needs an overhaul for sure. ”

Jmat Says:
September 11, 2008 at 5:39 pm

“Yes, that is a large issue with the L. However, I had heard on WGN that Metra has plans to extend their service to downtown.”


That’s my problem with Chicago style attitude: is the transportation in the city “ok right now” or it has a “large issue” as you implied in latter your message? It’s either one or another, you know?

When I hear people praise (”it’s OK now”) Chicago transportation system I realize they haven’t seen a real public transportation system that people can use for transportation all the time, not just to get to work.
Metra on the other hand is a SUBURBAN COMMUTER system which has nothing to do with transportation within the city.
Yeah, I now I can take the bus, but the service stops at night…

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 12, 2008 at 3:13 pm editMetra also does not have weekend or holiday service on many of its lines.

And the Metra suburban loop that’s been mentioned? That’s been in the “talking phase” for at least 30 years that I know of. Don’t hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

Lanny Says:
September 13, 2008 at 1:07 am editChicago stinks too. When I get off the train almost anywhere in the city, a sewer smell comes wafting up from the streets. I don’t remember smelling poo poo while walking around Manhatten.

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 13, 2008 at 2:24 am editAnyone else getting tired of hearing NY or LA in the same sentence with Chicago?

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 13, 2008 at 5:06 am editAnd Lost…

Chicago do not understand that transit is not just something to shove people in and out of work. (In and out of downtown) Plus they love their cars and have terrible driving habits — which is evident in their traffic and fat asses.

Chicagoans don’t enjoy anything but being wasted and working, why would they need to take a train other than to go to work? (to get money for drinking).

You’re really tapping in on the dry and lack of any good finesse or reason anyone with any sort of personality would want to remain in chicago any length of time anymore.

For the love of God, if anyone here loves chicago, they would fall head over heals for any other Mid-west city.

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 13, 2008 at 5:21 am editAside…

I don’t really think Chicago has a sense of humor much anymore BTW because everyone hates to be there.

The “new wave” Chicagoans, as I call them, from outlying Midwest States (Indiana-Franktown, Michigan, Ohio and maybe a few Iowa and Nebraska–have no sense of humor–or at least different from the deigo–latin based hilariously semi-racist Chicago humor i am used to)

With exception of a few improv theaters–with steadily declining–seedy work–and i can say that because i used to do it– Chicago has no sense of humor…I may have to return to the area and get a show together to show you bitches hows its done–or not…

Who would come see it if I did that?

Lanny Says:
September 13, 2008 at 2:12 pm editYeh, that is one of a hundred reasons I have hated living in Chicago. Besides the lack of peace and quiet, there is kind of this ‘ignore your neighbor’ policy in many areas. People don’t really care for each other and it’s because they “don’t have time to” . Maybe if they hung up the damn cell phone and stopped arguing with everyone for 5 seconds, they’d enjoy life a little more, and not have to continuously brag about a city which essentially anyone can move to if they want. That’s what cracks me up about Chicago. People here talk like they built Chicago! They didn’. Blood money did. Chicagoans have gotten meaner, and not in a good way.

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 16, 2008 at 4:17 pm editjr wrote:

“Chicago do not understand that transit is not just something to shove people in and out of work. (In and out of downtown) Plus they love their cars and have terrible driving habits — which is evident in their traffic and fat asses.”

Ditto. Commuter lines in Chicago are mistaken for public transportation system. There is no real public transportation system in Chicago that you can use on a daily basis.

Also, sense of humor in Chicago? No way. Sense of humor implies intelligence… Chicagoans are not really witty or bright, or creative. Those that were an exception to this rule have already left for the coasts…

I am with you. Folks in Chicago are simply crazy. When they drive they would rather talk to someone on the phone that to the person next to them… Is cellphone still a status symbol in Chicago? ) Neighbors who would pass by w/o saying hello, people who would not hold the door for you when they leave the store. On top of that they self-proclaim themselves as a examples of culture and politeness, ignorance is a bliss )

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 16, 2008 at 4:48 pm editI love this blog and specifically this post. Its like all the things I always knew but couldn’t find anyone who believed the same things.

Lanny wrote…

“People don’t really care for each other and it’s because they “don’t have time to” . Maybe if they hung up the damn cell phone and stopped arguing with everyone for 5 seconds, they’d enjoy life a little more, and not have to continuously brag about a city which essentially anyone can move to if they want.”

I can tell you from growing up there that the people have continuously stuck to themselves more and more. Like exponentially until they became unfriendly.

From when I was a little kid no one had air conditioning, they barbequed, sat on their porches, played in the street, to going home and playing baseball with my little brother now and having some asshole give me dirty looks when i hit a ball over his fence. And I’m not that old this is the late 80s early 90s we are talking about, maybe its the internet or all this bullshit around us.

If you look at my last post, I quoted Tony Wilson who said that as long as a city has a creative class, it can not be a “Derelict shithole.” Without good neighbors, Chicago becomes nothing.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 16, 2008 at 6:39 pm editAww Jr, I love you too, bud. )

franktown Says:
September 16, 2008 at 10:34 pm editWell, we’ve managed to escape any flooding in Indiana right now. But I heard the Southern and Western burbs haven’t been as lucky.

Ness, how was everything for you? Okay? Hope so! I have been so damn busy with class I havent’ been able to update in a while. I was just stopping by to say hi and say that I’m still here and hopefully will update soon.

Politics wise, I still like that damn Sarah Palin, but wish SHE was running for President. She would be a perfect Ron Paul substitute. I’m still voting for Obama just because of McCain!

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 16, 2008 at 11:11 pm editFRANK! There you are! I was giving you until tomorrow before starting my email campaign to make sure you were all right! I’m so glad to hear you’re okay! I heard from a friend of mine in Indianapolis that there were severe wind storms down there, but I don’t know how close you are to the city or if you were affected.

Things are fine with me dude. ) Thanks for asking. )

I know you like Sarah, and I know you’re trying to bait me by saying you’ll vote for Obama. I know you’d never do anything like that. Vote for McCain, and Sarah will get into the Oval Office even sooner than 2012 perhaps. I know you’re smart enough to figure that one out on your own. Have you seen my new political blog? http://politicalness.wordpress.com Not much there yet, but I’m working on it!

Seriously – I’m really glad to see you. *hug*

franktown Says:
September 17, 2008 at 1:05 am editYeah, last Sunday in the wind was terrible here. I’m actually 50 miles South of Indy, and the storm hit here before it hit there because it was Hurricane Ike’s ghost surging from Texas.

A political blog? Yeah!

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 17, 2008 at 8:53 am editFrank – Wow! Well, I’m glad you’re okay – what a doozie Ike was! We even got a lot of rain here and there’s a lot of flooding in the southern suburbs. My friend in Houston was without power for 4 days and said it’s really bad down there. I know there was a tropical depression that moved in from the east coast too, so the merging of the 2 systems was pretty intense for a lot of Midwest areas.

Yep, a political blog. )

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 17, 2008 at 12:01 pm editThe main reason Obama is unacceptable to me is because he is from Chicago. Everybody here knows how bad Chicago politics are: the same family running the city for so long defeated the checks and balances built into the system. As nepotism and political hires are fixtures of political life anywhere, Chicago brought it to yet another level and combined with absolute incompetence until it became public liability reflected in paralyzed government, out of control fiscal policy and rampant taxes… Chicago politics resembles pre-perestroika Russia: no freedom, no access to information, no organized grass-roots movements, no accountability but instead a lot of propaganda talk about the Olympics and big successes of current administration. O’Hare feels sometimes like an airport in North Korea – pictures of the Mayor and slogans reminding everyone how great Chicago is are almost anywhere you look…
Obama, despite talking about change (which every politician does from time to time) is a creation and has been a part of this political culture for years, his own involvement in local dealings including the Rezko scandal is still unclear and should be investigate before anyone casts a single vote… He is a part of local establishment, no matter what his PR people tell him to say… Did he start the change in Illinois and Chicago? If he did I never heard of the effects…

I do not like Chicago style politics i.e. government beyond control of citizens and I do not like to see it spill over to the rest of the country. Let’s keep it local, let’s keep it in Shitcago where nobody cares anyway.

burttheformercityboy Says:
September 17, 2008 at 3:37 pm editI was googling some political topics and found this great site. Here, fricking here! Ditto those remarks on Chicago government. I lived in Chi Town most my life (On the edge of Melrose) Chicago’s shine wore of when I became a young adult. That’s when I started my trek of all 50 United States. It took me about 10 years, but I got to all of them except Alaska and Hawaii. Chicago is a giant, glorified rust belt town. The granddaddy of all rust belt towns. Let’s break it down. The reason people like Chicago: Food? OK so you cannot get real Chicago pizza anywhere else. But who in Chicago eats that garbage anyway? Growing up, we were only subjected to a Lou Malnati’s deep dish on rare occasions and honestly did not care for it. Hot dogs? Get real. Steaks? Yes, there are some fine steak places, but nothing that blows your mind or really sets Chicago apart. Ethnic food? Sure. But again, many of the places are not all that great-and are very much a rip off. On to weather-Chicago weather sucks. The fall is the only pretty time of year. Summer is sticky and mosquito-ey, winter is sloppy and sub-freezing. Culture? Chicago has many of the same cultural attractions as any other mid sized city I’ve visited. Their theatre is actually third rate, behind places like Minneapolis or New York. The museums are plentiful, but so what? If I want to see a museum there are many great ones around the country. I don’t need to go back to Cook County, IL to seek my culture. The friendly people? This is probably the biggest fallacy of all and the main reason I left. Chicagoans are mostly passive aggressive and highly defensive. They don’t take criticism well and tend to hold grudges. I think the culture of the city has alot to do with it. Growing up there, if you weren’t hard nosed and “tough” and a closet racist, you were outcast. I guess alot of it has to do with the “second city” thing. The citizens, politicians, and officials all want Chicago to be this sort of midwest New York. They compete with every aspect of New York culture, from pizza and hotdogs, to art and architecture. But then they will tell you they don’t like New York because it’s too crowded or expensive. Well guess what? Thousands of people are leaving Chicago and moving to places like Michigan and Wisconsin to get away from the rat race and high cost of living. So whoever it was who said that there are posters of the mayor and “Chicago is great” signs at Ohare. .. gee I wonder why?! That is what it’s like to live there. Constant chest thumping, “we are better than you” (a microcosm for American foreign policy) but unfortunately not a whole lot to back it up. Never been happier since I left.

September 17, 2008 at 7:12 pm editCongrats to Chicago for being named by Forbes Magazine “most stressful city in America” #1 Baby!!. Reasons given- Traffic, bad Air, Population density, weather, high unemployment. Of course King Daley shrugged it off saying everybody is stressed everywhere.
Anyway hope you all made it through the 10 inches of rain over the weekend. Good luck to all. Although I’d like to leave I am holding on for dear life to my job in the loop!! Best to all and Franktown what planet are you on???

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 17, 2008 at 9:42 pm editBurt from Melrose—

Where did you run to? I know some smellrose people, lol. Chicago sucks and you are right about the passive aggressiveness, they’re real backstabbers chicagoans

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 17, 2008 at 9:47 pm editAnd Daley’s response was to say, “New York and London are stressful too.” Haha what a joke that city is.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 17, 2008 at 10:06 pm editBurt – Welcome to our little corner of the blogosphere. ) Thanks for stopping by and commenting – it’s always nice to see a new friendly face.

So much of what you say is true. I was particularly struck by your comment, “if you weren’t hard nosed and “tough,” you were outcast”. I didn’t arrive here that way, but I sure did become that way after dealing with being outcast for disagreeing with people on how great the entire Chicagoland area is. The irony, to me, is that now that I’m more hard-nosed and tough, I’m still an outcast because I made the grave mistake of not falling into the goose-step “Chicago is perfect!” parade.

Glad to have a new friend, and I hope we see more of you. )

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 17, 2008 at 10:09 pm editHey Pete! Stealing my thunder! ;) LOL I have a new post going up on my front page Friday about that very thing! I hope you check it out. )

I didn’t get that much rain up here over the weekend, but did get quite a lot. Scary how pounded some of those southern areas got, although not nearly as bad as Texas. My girlfriend lived through it, and man, it was bad down there. I hope you made it through okay too, and didn’t get too wet where you are.

September 18, 2008 at 12:07 am editWell the grass is looking quite green anyway. Lots of complaints from residents in Albany Park that the city didnt respond well to the flooding. Also a good article in the Sun Time yesterday on how people in Chicago are struggling, crimes up, schools suck etc. but King Daley only gives a crap about an olympic bid 8 years down the road when a good portion of the city’s residents may of moved out of the city or out of state if they are lucky. Anyway, a buddy of mine just got the shit beaten out of his eye in Logan Square over the weekend and I just read in Red Eye that CTA riders are very poor at yielding seats to the elderly and pregnant. I just dont know what to say anymore. I want to stay positive. It’s better for my IBS and other anxiety related issues, but as the stressful survey indicates I am not in the minority on this in Chicago..

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 18, 2008 at 12:21 am editi lived in Logan Square, lucky i didn’t get my ass beat. That place is no joke still, there are some pretty rough gangsters who care about no one around there.

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 18, 2008 at 12:42 am editChicago is no laughing matter, sorry about your friend pistol, head for the hills

franktown Says:
September 18, 2008 at 12:53 am editWell, if you’re really that stressed out and living in Chicago, it’s the best city to gather ’round your pals at the end of the day and go to a pub or club for a little dancing and drinking.

It worked for me (even though I was never that stressed)

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 18, 2008 at 2:57 pm editPete – I’m so sorry about your friend. *hug* I imagine that’s pretty scary. I hope he gets better soon and makes a full recovery.


Frank – You’re still happy-go-lucky. But, as my husband’s former martial arts teacher once told him, “Don’ worry, you gonna get hit!” ;)

burttheformercityboy Says:
September 19, 2008 at 1:10 pm editFranktown,
I have to disagree about Chicago being the best city to sit around and drink or –go dancing??? I think people drink out of necessity in Chicago and they really aren’t all that friendly of drunks…pretty ornery. I don’t know that in all the years we lived there if I ever met any adult (or teenager) who did not drink, often times to excess. Back to dancing. People in Chicago dance pretty lame from what I remember, and they should probably stick to their God awful polkas. I guess I used to get a chuckle watching them try. But overweight, pasty faced people with bad haircuts doing a cha-cha just ain’t my idea of a good scene. I can’t vouch for the “club” scene in Chicago as I could really care less and am too old. And as far as pubs, you must mean downtown. There you can find some nice pubs, but again…always way overpriced, the service I found was awful, and most places are patroned by a steady stream of business suits and wannabe yuppies. Not the funnest of crowds. The average joe is kind of out of place down there these days. The bars near my former home in Melrose Park (well technically Franklin Park) they were pretty much dives, so we’d journey by word of mouth to these other bars near the city that people would tell us about or we’d hear advertised. And they were usually pretty much the same, real cookie cutter joints with nothing to set them apart. When we wanted to go out for a fun weekend of drinking, we used to head north to Wisconsin. The drinking age used to be 18 when in Illinois it was 21. The bars there were alot more fun, even though there were many hole in the walls also. There was a place in Milwaukee WI we’d hit sometimes that had some EXCELLENT German beer. It was in the basement of a hotel and had no sign or anything. But anyway, I digress. This message board’s purpose is to say why Chicago sucks right? I guess after years of hanging my shingle there, it was just time to get out.

burttheformercityboy Says:
September 19, 2008 at 1:20 pm editJust wanted to add, i was reading through these posts and saw that someone said that there is a bad smell in downtown Chicago. This is true. That was one of the many reasons I did not care to go down there that often. The parking was horrendous, the homeless people are pretty scary, and every ten feet smell like an unflushed toilet.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 19, 2008 at 2:03 pm editBurt – “I think people drink out of necessity in Chicago” I had to chuckle when I saw that line – you sound like my bud JR.

I can tell you that I don’t drink. Sometimes I wish I did though!

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 20, 2008 at 1:09 am editwhen some people are dunk they dance, sing, or act a certain way, When i am drunk I talk about how worthless and deceiving that shit hole metro area (and state) is now.

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 20, 2008 at 1:14 am edithow the hell do you live in chicago and not drink, that is like going to a library with no books (or computers)

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 20, 2008 at 2:21 am editJR – I am stronger than the stress and misery that Chicago throws at me! Stronger! Mwuhahahahaha! I will be the victor!


Lost In Chicago Says:
September 20, 2008 at 9:40 pm editAnd Daley’s response was to say, “New York and London are stressful too.”

That’s pure Chicago attitude and that’s exactly why nothing ever gets fixed in Chicago. Denial. When will the people of Chicago stand up and demand a change? Oh, I forgot they are busy drinking and discussing another failed Cubs/Sox season. Then of course there is Obama who promises a change, like Washington is going to come to Chicago and fix all the local problems…
By the way Chicago making the number one stress generator only confirms what we have been saying all along… It’s worse than LA, DC and NY but without the glamor…

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 21, 2008 at 5:30 pm editLost – That’s exactly my point – the whole, “Well, it’s just as bad as [insert city of your choice here].” Why is it that no one ever says, “Why don’t we try to be better?”???

burttheformercityboy Says:
September 21, 2008 at 11:10 pm editDon’t hold your breath for Chicago to get better soon. It is/has been basically controlled for years by the same crooked bunch. Probably always will be to some extent. Fat good the addition of Millenium Park and some new skyscapers has done! Homelessness and unemployment are still much higher than average and thousands of people are moving away from the Chicagoland area to escape sharp rise in the cost of living. Hey, at least the city is getting wealthy…who cares about the average citizen right?

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 22, 2008 at 1:13 am editBurt – Oh, I exhaled decades ago. ) That’s why I feel SO free to criticize the city, because I know NOTHING is going to change it anyway, so I may as well poke fun.

This is Daley – “No, everything’s fine in Chicago, there’s no machine here, there’s no corruption here … did you see the new shiny bean I put up in the park? Isn’t it sparkly and pretty?”

And the people go, “Ooooh! Look! A shiny sparkly bean thing! Wow, isn’t Daley great?!”

Am I right or am I right? ;)

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 22, 2008 at 1:48 am editLOL shiny bean, hahaha, so true, so true

burttheformercityboy Says:
September 22, 2008 at 10:52 am edityes, shiny beans and ferris wheels (yawn) meanwhile theres a rampant homeless problem and gang wars in the REAL streets of Chicago, away from the shiny bean. want my opionion of Chicago culture? the wife used to drag us downtown to get some Chicago culture. we went to a blues club called Buddy Guy’s. now, i love the old blues, but I could hardly see the point of this “new” Chicago blues. there were actually more white dudes perfoming than old blues musicians. what the hell do white guys have to be blue about? The Nautica store is running low on khacki pants?? And even the black blues performers had lost their edge. One of the blues songs mentioned a cell phone and a laptop?!? Uh, I think the blues has reached its creative limit folks, at least in the big city. We used to think the theatre scene in Chicago was great, but upon further review, we’ve taken some vacations to New York, Minneapolis, Houston…I think all have a better selection of theatre. So what the hell IS Chicago the best at? Traffic jams? 30 pound pizzas? Skyscrapers? I loved the Chicago skyline, but I don’t need to live there to admire it. When I did live there I rarely saw it anyway, so who cares? People who love Chicago are about 9 million strong (including suburbs), so there must be some attraction right? I guess you could look at that two ways. There are 9 million people clustered together in place with a bad climate, high cost of living and taxes, terrible transportation, and high crime rates. Sounds like any other rust belt city except with far larger headaches because of the far larger population. There are MILLIONS more who do NOT live in a big city and get along just fine.

realr Says:
September 22, 2008 at 12:14 pm editMy Bridgeport best friend said he hates the joke that is Millennium Park. The taxes he has to pay for this waste for of space.
As I said in Jr’s blog, in 48 hrs., I will be out of this racist, childlike, redneck, cracker filled smelly city.
I am sure the freaks who giggle with hands over their mouths (I mentioned this to my Ca. friends, and they are now convinced that Chicagoans are the true cracker hicks that everyone thought they were), saying in their perfect Chicagoese (I am multilingual, I speak French and some German, but I still have no idea what these racist freaks are saying. oh, that’s right my IQ is too high). I am sure these dogshitcagoans will say “dar,der, get the fuck out.”.
With a pleasure you racist pieces of shit, with pleasure.
Over the weekend, I purchased soda, and I looked at the receipt, taxes for soda are 13.25%, other items are 10.50%, this is my last purchase is this smelly shithole.
Although these tough guys (really just giggling whimpering little girls) will take it. When the tax rate goes to 18% you will take it while this city sinks lower and lower into high crime, poor transportation, and high corruption.
I am out, have fun in your narrow minded tunnel vision of how great this city is, when it is one of the worst in the nation with figures to back it up.
I don’t care what you think of me, I don’t think highly of this city at all.
I am out, I will have nothing to do with this city.

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 22, 2008 at 1:34 pm editBurttheformercityboy,

What attraction? Chicago does not know the term “attraction” or “joy of life” or “passion”. This city ideals are based in puritan tradition where life is SUPPOSED to be a grueling experience and if there is any fun in it then it must be wrong… and punished or ridiculed.
Don’t stand out, don’t be original, don’t try too hard, keep your head down, don’t complain – doesn’t that sound like both the short description and a survival guide to life in Chicago?
Of course this is just a facade intended to keep the talented individuals from ever rising above the mediocre level and exposing inaptitude of the general population. Beneath is total and utterly arrogant disrespect for others. Just look at the Daleys, Ryans etc. Are their existence in Chicago’s political culture just a coincidence?

Thank God, there is New York and I can’t help but wonder, if it is so different because of the large Italian population that added the Mediterranean joy of life to the usual Anglo-Saxon/Irish mix? Just look how much culture there is in New York with all the galleries of Soho, Broadway, all the publishing houses…. It seems that there is more world-class culture in New York than in the rest of the country and I think the “joy of live” makes the difference…

PS. I understand different people have different definitions of culture and different perceptions however you can’t deny New York’s Broadway (and off-Broadway) is world-class theater, New York Times is world class journalism, Metropolitan Opera world class music and it would be hard to find anything matching their level outside of Big Apple.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 22, 2008 at 2:30 pm editRealR!! So good to see you dude!! I know you’ve been busy packing and all, but I was hoping you’d stop in before you left. And I’m so glad you did. D

The taxes, I know! They have the regular tax rate, then they tack on all kinds of fees! Navy Pier tax, Restaurant tax, plate fee – the list seems endless. Robbery, plain and simple.

I hope you come back here to the blog and visit after you’re settled in at your new place. Come back and rub it in, how wonderful it is to be out of here, how magical it is to be free. Remind us there really is a different kind of life out there and we too can attain it. )

Safe journeys and Godspeed dude. I’ll say a prayer for you. Check in soon!

Weird’d Out Says:
September 22, 2008 at 3:10 pm editThe main problem is that, people think it’s just Daley lol, which is why nothing there will change. City of Denial.

It can never just be ONE person’s fault when all side of a city suck.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 22, 2008 at 3:21 pm editWeird – Welcome! And no, you’re right, it’s not just one person’s fault, although as Mayor, Daley has to take responsibility for a lot of it. It’s all the aldermen too. And the people, because the people don’t vote these corrupt jerks out of office no matter how bad things get. They just keep bending over for more, and they don’t even get dinner and a kiss first.

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 22, 2008 at 4:29 pm editOf course it is the people of Illinois/Chicago to blame.
You can only a have a government as good as you deserve.
But of course nobody wants to be negative in Illinois/Chicago and complain. As the locals say, “what can you do about it”?
Hold on a sec, we are trying to bring democracy to Iraq and in the same time people in the heartland of America do not trust the system themselves? What is the point?

burttheformercityboy Says:
September 22, 2008 at 10:39 pm editSpeaking about putting up skyscrapers,
I just watched a history channel special about how skyscrapers are becoming less and less of a practical thing to build, in an age when you can literally do business from anywhere, the people of the near future, maybe your grandkids, will find it strange that people ever clustered themselves together in offices to conduct their work. So what will cities be then? Most experts think they will be relying on tourism and residential properties for the extremely wealthy. Sounds kind of sad really. The city does all it can for the wealthy interests, and very little for the unemployed and homeless.

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 23, 2008 at 12:50 am edit“What attraction? Chicago does not know the term “attraction” or “joy of life” or “passion”. This city ideals are based in puritan tradition where life is SUPPOSED to be a grueling experience and if there is any fun in it then it must be wrong… and punished or ridiculed.”

hahah, there may be some truth to this. I don’t know i have some Italian blood and that side seems to have some passion, i also have some saxon in me that is puritan.

mchambers Says:
September 23, 2008 at 1:40 am editChicago pros=
plenty of fresh water
pretty good food in some places
real tall buildings

Chicago cons=
weather sucks (except fall)
traffic is terrible
airport sucks
people there are passive aggressive and condescending
the city itself reeks of sewer
the sports teams usually blow
the train system sucks
higher crime than most big cities (and they try to hide it)
politics cripple their citizens and taxes force them into debt
gang crime still a major problem after all these years
high pollution
bad drivers

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 23, 2008 at 11:00 am editJ.R.

It is not a joke. I do not have any Italian or Spanish blood but if you ever travel to Italy, Portugal or Spain you will notice that people there truly enjoy life and have an “easy going” attitude… Especially Spain struck me as a happy place which is the exact opposite of Chicago: definitely not an “easy going” place with most people being extremely high sprung, like walking time bombs waiting to explode at any moment.

Chicago was named number one “stress city” in the US but the real problem here is people’s inability to deal with the stress inherent to leaving in a big city effectively.
Using New York as an example, we all know life there is definitely a big stress inducing experience but people are much more easy going which makes it easier to cope with… Many times in traffic you can see people honking and even shouting at each other but it only lasts a moment and then everyone goes back to their lives without escalating the incident into anything serious… People in New York know how to vent and not to accumulate the daily stress and in the same time they hold the doors for others and take their time to say “excuse me” and and “thank you” even when squeezed in a subway car…
For an East Coaster the entire Midwestern “friendly” attitude is little fishy and comes across as little immature and simple inability to express one’s emotions… You do not HAVE to be touchy-feelly friendly and polite all the time, that’s a pose, nobody is always content and happy unless you are on Prozac.
I would like to see Chicago less “friendly” but more easy-going…

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
September 23, 2008 at 2:18 pm editLost–

Me of all people know its not a joke. Click on my name and read my blog if you haven’t

People in Chicago hate life. they see it has grueling and something that needs to be done. mechanical and dry.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 23, 2008 at 3:53 pm editMchambers – you pretty much nailed it with that one! Short, sweet, and to the point! LOL Welcome to the neighborhood! I hope you’ll come back again. )

mchambers Says:
September 24, 2008 at 2:55 pm edithttp://www.forbestraveler.com/best-lists/record-breaking-countries-story.html

Here is a link to a list of some of the “tallest and biggest” things on Earth. Guess which city did not make the list?

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 24, 2008 at 10:36 pm editMChambers – LOL Nope, Chicago lost its “Home of the World’s Tallest Building” status years ago. But shhh, don’t say that out loud! It pisses off the natives. ;)

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 25, 2008 at 9:21 pm editIsn’t that stupid when the reason to gloat is “the tallest building”, “the longest bridge”… What about some life, culture, art scene to be proud of? Nah, nothing like that in Chicago. Most Chicago artists are already in New York… You can’t make it as an artist here in Chicago.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 25, 2008 at 11:37 pm editThey had to gloat about “tallest building” because there is no culture here, nothing outstanding. A few houses by Frank Lloyd Wright but not much else.

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 26, 2008 at 9:40 am editdarcs,

I am really sorry but I could not help myself… We are talking about Chicago and reasons you should be proud of this city (tall building, Taste Of Chicago, Millenium Park) by when saw Wikipedia’s entry for New York City I realized why in New York nobody talks abotu how big the city is or how tall the buidlings are… That’s not what makes New York what it is…
Please take a look at what Wikipedia says about New York and you’ll realize how absurd is to talk about Chicago rivaling New York or to talk about Chicago’s in context of mass transit or being a green city…. I can’t believe this moron Daley is able to persuade Chicagoans the city is as good as it gets…

“New York City (officially The City of New York) is the largest city in the United States, with a metropolitan area that is among the largest urban areas in the world. The city serves as one of the world’s primary global cities, exerting a powerful influence over worldwide commerce, finance, culture, and entertainment. The city is also an important center for international affairs, hosting the United Nations headquarters.
The city consists of five distinct boroughs: The Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens, and Staten Island. It is the most densely populated major city in the United States, with an estimated 8,274,527 people[1] within an area of 304.8 square miles (789.43 km2).[2][3][4][5][6] The New York metropolitan area is also the largest metropolitan area in the country, with an estimated 19,750,000 people over 6,720 square miles (17,400 km2) in three states.[7]
New York is largely unique among American cities for its high use of mass transit, and the overall density and diversity of its population. In 2005, nearly 170 languages were spoken in the city and 36% of its population was born outside the United States.[8][9] The city is sometimes referred to as “The City That Never Sleeps” due to its extensive 24-hour subway system and constant bustling of traffic and people, while other nicknames include Gotham and the Big Apple.[10][11]
Founded as a commercial trading post by the Dutch in 1624, it served as the capital of the United States from 1785 until 1790,[12] and has been the nation’s largest city since 1790. The Statue of Liberty greeted millions of immigrants as they came to America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Wall Street, in Lower Manhattan, has been a dominant global financial center since World War II and is home to the New York Stock Exchange. Today, the city has many renowned landmarks and neighborhoods that are world famous. The city has been home to several of the tallest buildings in the world, including the Empire State Building and the twin towers of the former World Trade Center. New York is the birthplace of many cultural movements, including the Harlem Renaissance in literature and visual art, abstract expressionism (also known as the New York School) in painting, and hip hop,[13] punk,[14] salsa, disco and Tin Pan Alley in music. It is also the home of Broadway theater.Mass transit use in New York City is the highest in United States and gasoline consumption in the city is at the rate the national average was in the 1920s.[44] New York City’s high rate of transit use saved 1.8 billion gallons of oil in 2006; New York saves half of all the oil saved by transit nationwide.[45] The city’s population density, low automobile use and high transit utility make it among the most energy efficient cities in the United States.[46] New York City’s greenhouse gas emissions are 7.1 metric tons per person compared with the national average of 24.5.[47] New Yorkers are collectively responsible for one percent of the nation’s total greenhouse gas emissions[47] though comprising 2.7% of the nation’s population. The average New Yorker consumes less than half the electricity used by a resident of San Francisco and nearly one-quarter the electricity consumed by a resident of Dallas.[48] In recent years the city has focused on reducing its environmental impact. Large amounts of concentrated pollution in New York City led to high incidence of asthma and other respiratory conditions among the city’s residents.[49] The city government is required to purchase only the most energy-efficient equipment for use in city offices and public housing.[50] New York has the largest clean air diesel-hybrid and compressed natural gas bus fleet in the country, and some of the first hybrid taxis.[51] The city government was a petitioner in the landmark Massachusetts v. Environmental Protection Agency Supreme Court case forcing the EPA to regulate greenhouse gases as pollutants. The city is also a leader in the construction of energy-efficient green office buildings, including the Hearst Tower among others.[52]

New York City is supplied with drinking water by the protected Catskill Mountains watershed.[53] As a result of the watershed’s integrity and undisturbed natural water filtration process, New York is one of only four major cities in the United States with drinking water pure enough not to require purification by water treatment plants.[54]
The city is also important in the American film industry. Manhatta (1920), an early avant-garde film, was filmed in the city.[76] Today, New York City is the second largest center for the film industry in the United States. The city has more than 2,000 arts and cultural organizations and more than 500 art galleries of all sizes.[77] The city government funds the arts with a larger annual budget than the National Endowment for the Arts.[77] Wealthy industrialists in the 19th century built a network of major cultural institutions, such as the famed Carnegie Hall and Metropolitan Museum of Art, that would become internationally established. The advent of electric lighting led to elaborate theatre productions, and in the 1880s New York City theaters on Broadway and along 42nd Street began showcasing a new stage form that came to be known as the Broadway musical.
Strongly influenced by the city’s immigrants, productions such as those of Harrigan and Hart, George M. Cohan and others used song in narratives that often reflected themes of hope and ambition. Today these productions are a mainstay of the New York theatre scene. The city’s 39 largest theatres (with more than 500 seats) are collectively known as “Broadway,” after the major thoroughfare that crosses the Times Square theatre district.[78] This area is sometimes referred to as The Main Stem, The Great White Way or The Realto.
The Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts, which includes Jazz at Lincoln Center, the Metropolitan Opera, the New York City Opera, the New York Philharmonic, the New York City Ballet, the Vivian Beaumont Theatre, the Juilliard School and Alice Tully Hall, is the largest performing arts center in the United States. Central Park SummerStage presents performances of free plays and music in Central Park and 1,200 free concerts, dance, and theater events across all five boroughs in the summer months.[79]
New York City is considered by many to be the heart of stand-up comedy in the United States.[80][81]

New York’s use of mass transit gives the city a large newspaper readership base[84]
New York is a global center for the television, advertising, music, newspaper and book publishing industries and is also the largest media market in North America (followed by Los Angeles, Chicago, and Toronto).[85] Some of the city’s media conglomerates include Time Warner, the News Corporation, the Hearst Corporation, and Viacom. Seven of the world’s top eight global advertising agency networks are headquartered in New York.[86] Three of the “Big Four” record labels are also based in the city, as well as in Los Angeles. One-third of all American independent films are produced in New York.[87] More than 200 newspapers and 350 consumer magazines have an office in the city[87] and the book-publishing industry employs about 25,000 people.[88]
Two of the three national daily newspapers in the United States are New York papers: The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times. Major tabloid newspapers in the city include The New York Daily News and The New York Post, founded in 1801 by Alexander Hamilton. The city also has a major ethnic press, with 270 newspapers and magazines published in more than 40 languages.[89] El Diario La Prensa is New York’s largest Spanish-language daily and the oldest in the nation.[90] The New York Amsterdam News, published in Harlem, is a prominent African American newspaper. The Village Voice is the largest alternative newspaper.

Since 2005 the city has had the lowest crime rate among the 25 largest U.S. cities, having become significantly safer after a spike in crime in the 1980s and early 1990s from the crack epidemic that impacted many neighborhoods. By 2002, New York City had about the same crime rate as Provo, Utah and was ranked 197th in overall crime among the 216 U.S. cities with populations greater than 100,000. Violent crime in New York City decreased more than 75% from 1993 to 2005 and continued decreasing during periods when the nation as a whole saw increases.[142] In 2005 the homicide rate was at its lowest level since 1963, and in 2007 the city recorded fewer than 500 homicides for the first time ever since crime statistics were first published in 1963.[143]
Sociologists and criminologists have not reached consensus on what explains the dramatic decrease in the city’s crime rate. Some attribute the phenomenon to new tactics used by the New York City Police Department, including its use of CompStat and the broken windows theory. Others cite the end of the crack epidemic and demographic changes.[144]
Organized crime has long been associated with New York City, beginning with the Forty Thieves and the Roach Guards in the Five Points in the 1820s. The 20th century saw a rise in the Mafia dominated by the Five Families. Gangs including the Black Spades also grew in the late 20th century.[145]

The entire Wikipedia entry can be found here: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_york_city

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 26, 2008 at 10:16 am editPS

The fact that most of the publishing houses, national newspapers, performing arts are located in New York does not mean that everyone reads NYT end to end or goes to see a show every night. It does not mean that I did that, I am not an opera, ballet or theater buff. I am a 6′2 210 lbs guy how who is into martial arts all his life. The point this is the arts, media, culture that define the city, not its building, population or number of bridges.
Living in New York you are immersed in culture either you like it or not… The reason New York has this cultural superiority over any other city in the US and most of the world, is that there is a huge audience for it, besides the tourists.
You do not open Starbucks in the slums and you do not build a Broadway theater or print New York Times in Madison WI or Chicago. That’s where the superiority of New York lies, its culture, heritage and population. Chicago on the other hand can claim the tallest buildings (it is not even true anymore), Taste of Chicago and Ravinia Festival. Nobody outside of Chicago really cares… Outside of Chicago you fly to New York to catch a Broadway show or visit Carneggie Hall and if you want world-class journalism you buy York Times and not Chicago Tribune.

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 26, 2008 at 1:11 pm editLost – Here’s how I see it – New York has its own culture and presence. Love it or hate it, you can’t deny its importance to American business or entertainment.

Chicago’s identity is this: We want to be the New York of the Midwest.

That’s why it will always lose, because it’s always trying to be something else, while never admitting to what it is.

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 26, 2008 at 4:21 pm editdarcs,

If it wasn’t for the arrogance of Chicagoans I would not even comment on this board. There are places and life outside of New York, we all know it ) but seeing so much incompetence, so much mediocrity In Chicago and in the same time hearing praises about it just drives me nuts…

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 26, 2008 at 5:15 pm editWell I appreciate your presence Lost. )

It all drives me nuts too, which is why I post all the articles I do. ;)

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 27, 2008 at 10:01 pm editdarcs,

We are brothers in arms.


DarcsFalcon Says:
September 27, 2008 at 10:11 pm editLost – LOL, would you be okay with a sister in arms? D

Lost In Chicago Says:
September 28, 2008 at 1:16 am editDarcs

Why not )

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 28, 2008 at 2:47 am editLost – D Yay!

Floridian Says:
September 30, 2008 at 12:26 am edit(formerly known as Shitcagoan)
Hey folks! I’m sure you may have seen, but guess what? Forbes has labeled Chicago in another top ten list(or should I say bottom). This time they won FIRTST PLACE! HooraY! Most Stressful City in the USA
” Chicago’s rising unemployment rate, expensive gas, high population density and relatively poor air quality create a perfect storm of stress, according to measures we used to calculate the country’s anxiety hot spots. ”
Forbes, M. Desmond
(Sorry if its for the cut and paste)

Anyone digging that underground railroad?
Oh, the title of the Forbes article is… Americas Most Stressful Cities.
Good luck guys, and keep your chins up and your escape plans up-to-date!
(i can’t stand it when people claim that there are changing seasons in Shitcago. Ya, sticky, and freezing. Big deal. It’s not like there are four seasons. I’ll take hot and not as hot anyday over 90%CRAP! I had to say something to the JMAT guy, even though he/she seems polite.)

DarcsFalcon Says:
September 30, 2008 at 6:13 pm editFloridian! Woo! Love the new name! LOL Yeah, we saw that Forbes article, and boy did we ever have fun with it! D

I’m working on that railroad! One day at a time and lots of prayer. Hopefully I’ll get out of here one day, and then I can post blogs about my wonderful new place. )

Good to see you! Don’t be a stranger!

franktown Says:
October 2, 2008 at 3:26 am edit

Well, if you’re in Florida Shitcagoan, I at least hope you’re in Tampa or Miami (those are pretty much the only cities worth visiting there… Miami a bit more so than Tampa, although Tampa was pretty sweet)… but judging by your distaste of Chicago’s so many faults, I would think cities more like Sarasota or Orlando would be more fitting for you.

Is croquet and backgammon with the old folks going okay??

Well, at least you’re happy. In all seriousness, don’t invest to much in oceanfront property on that state… it may be underwater in 30 years or so!

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
October 3, 2008 at 10:36 am edit

Got to have Frankie jump in to point out all the sterotypes of somewhere else. Chicago would be underwater too soon. Oh wait it has been when all of downtown flooded in the 90s, or when they chopped down a swamp and built a city there.

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 3, 2008 at 1:49 pm edit

JR – Yeah, well. He does that to bait people and get a rise out of them. I suspect 99.9% of the time he doesn’t mean or believe what he says himself. He just wants to get a reaction.

Right Frank? ;)

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
October 3, 2008 at 2:24 pm edit

oh yeah, i don’t want to drag the frankie/jr battle back here. and actually Franktown is alight guy as long as chicago is not brought in the mix.

This new guy “shoes” is like early Franktown times 100 on my blog, he is going to have to go.

Nevermind what i said.

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 3, 2008 at 2:51 pm edit

JR – Oh I think he’s not anywhere near how Frank was.

It seems to me that many people fail to understand, these are private blogs, NOT public forums. Free speech rules don’t apply. It’s the owner’s thoughts and if you don’t agree, too bad, leave. Trying to berate and insult someone on their own blog is really bad form and basically against the blog rules.

Shoes is trying to do that with you. He thinks he’s smarter than you and far more intellectual than you. He’s a faux intellectual and not worth getting upset about.

franktown Says:
October 3, 2008 at 9:16 pm edit

I guess I missed him trolling. I should have to read his posts… People like that DO give Chicago a bad name.

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 5, 2008 at 12:17 am edit

Frank – Yeah, some guy over on JR’s blog. You might like him though. ;)

Floridian Says:
October 5, 2008 at 12:46 am edit

Yo Franktown
Your senoir comment cracked me up!
No joke about the oceanfront. It’s beautiful, but you’re right. It may be covered by water soon, if not polluted. What are the saying, drill baby drill! I hope it’s not as devastating as some say it can be. It would be a shame to escape to the beach and have taken away from carelessness. Gotta go, my ‘depends’ are leaking!

Floridian Says:
October 5, 2008 at 12:47 am edit

is carelessness a double negative?

Floridian Says:
October 5, 2008 at 12:48 am edit

nevermind, i figured it out.

October 7, 2008 at 10:24 pm edit

How about that all Chicago World Series?? Oops I guess it’s wait until next year.


DarcsFalcon Says:
October 7, 2008 at 11:06 pm edit

BoSox! Woo!!

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
October 8, 2008 at 4:45 pm edit

Falcon– free speech completely applys on my blog, as many others but it is the owners right to say and do as they please because its their blog.

When this guy comes on and insults me, thats not a problem. Whats a problem is not understanding who the blog is for and what its direction is.

And I will admit I have the tendency to one up a person, but this guy shoes isn’t bothering me. In fact, it really points out the type of people who we are dealing with in regards to being insulted anytime something negative about chicago is brought to light.

So he is probably good for my blog. The same reason I want Franktown around, he disagrees with me but really keeps things somewhat balenced. And I have to say Frankie has been respectful.

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 8, 2008 at 9:25 pm edit

JR – Frank has been respectful and that makes me glad. I think he was just wanting to bait people and not necessarily a rah-rah like he claims. That shoes guy is an irritant too, but I find it amusing that even though you’ve asked him to leave, he still hasn’t. How rude! But then, that just proves the point. LOL

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 9, 2008 at 8:49 am edit

Pretty funny, I found this quote on wiki:

“The article quotes Robert Greenhut, Woody Allen’s producer, as saying that despite the increased sanitization of modern New York, “New Yorkers’ personalities are different to Chicago. There’s a certain kind of vibrancy and tone that you can’t get elsewhere. The labor pool is more interesting than elsewhere — the salesgirl with one line, or the cop. That’s who directors are looking for.””
after wikipedia: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_New_York_City#The_city_in_popular_culture
Thats pretty much what some of us have been saying for a long time, folks in Chicago lack personality… There is this midwestern belief that you are supposed to be a conformist, to fit in, to be popular and not to stand out in any way which causes most of the people here to be absolutely bland and appear as having no personality whatsoever…

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
October 9, 2008 at 9:39 am edit


I’m really glad you pointed that out. Now I know you like to compare to NY, but by themselves Chicagoans are not only bland, the are cold, stern, morbid and depressing. Of course there are exceptions, but I personally couldn’t believe people don’t just sulk through life like they do in Chicago until I left. You know I really lightened up when I get used to being away from that giant circus.

It seems to me that people from out East or West like to associate the same attributes for the entire region. Ie “friendly, midwestern, whaterver etc etc…” Cincinnati is completely different from Chicago personality wise. I think Chicago stands alone with its personality.

franktown Says:
October 9, 2008 at 11:25 am edit

Cincinnati is certainly a friendly city! You know it’s two hours away from Bloomington, and while I’ve only been there once, I really thought it was quite a site to behold! The hills man, surround the city, really give it an aura that you can’t find anywhere else in the midwest.

The winters are really nice there to. You won’t have a snow until early January and winter will probably end the first week of March.

Chicago always will stand alone in everything (in both good and bad things).

BTW- Lost, which city in FL did you move to? How is it there?

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 9, 2008 at 1:35 pm edit


My first few months in Chicago I felt like I am in a zombie town surrounded by faces w/o expressions, people w/o wit or sense of humor. All young people seemed like clones of a few comic book characters: hicks with long overdue haircuts with ladies in jumpsuits and white sneakers, midwestern “good girls” with “kill’em with kindness” naivety as an attitude, “I am tuff enough to wear my baseball hat sideways” jocks and “look how hip I am” hipsters, few “California surfer boys in Chicago”, few “gangstas in Toyota Corolla” and least but not last “Winnetka Royalty” in Benz. Not much individuality or variety here, it feels like everyone was acting out their dream personality for the lack of having a real one… Exaggerated politeness as prosthetics for normal social skills plus having an individual opinion seemed to be a criminal offense… Brr. No wonder most Chicago artists have are moved “to the coasts”…

Yes, I realize I compare Chicago to New York a lot but that’s because I know this city very well but also because Chicagoans themselves like to make this absurd comparison at least twice a day… How many time you can explain Chicago Tribune is not New York Times, CBT is not Wall Street and the Cubs are not the Yankees even if they tried twice as hard as they trying right now?

BTW I heard about Cincinnati being a nice place to live even when still in New York. New Yorkers are very secure in their admiration for their city to the point they openly criticize and rebel against it… Historically many move to Florida to retire, many to surrounding areas of New Jersey, Long Island and Connecticut to raise kids and buy houses… You do not have to defend your city when everyone knows that New York, the City, is the best place on the planet ;) even if you have to leave it for one reason or another…

franktown Says:
October 9, 2008 at 3:03 pm edit

I think you’re obviously a New Yorker in disguise )

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 10, 2008 at 12:01 am edit

Frank – No disguise about it. ) Lost used to live in NY.

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 10, 2008 at 2:16 pm edit

Yes, I miss living in a colorful, vibrant city that gave the world many many artists and rewards individualism and creativity…
I miss the city where people have their own opinions and can and know to openly express their feelings without being ridiculed.
If I was born in Chicago I would probably believe that “all big cities are like this” but I know it is not true but I really know this is not true and after living in Chicago for three years I understand now why almost everybody who is anybody choses to live in “the City that never sleeps” despite the cost… I guess I had to move to Chicago to truly appreciate New York experience.

franktown Says:
October 10, 2008 at 6:46 pm edit

I go to school with TONS of New Yorkers (you know, the ones who weren’t smart enough to get into state schools), and they constantly bash other cities, but it’s not that they are ‘insecure’ about their city, it’s that they just don’t know any better.

You sound exactly like the characters in Chicago you complain about (”everybody who is anybody choses to live in New York”).
Have you every heard a Chicago say something like that? If you have, look in the mirror and realize NYC people say the same thing. And as much as NYC rocks and beats Chicago in almost everything (except price of course), why do you live in Florida not NY?

franktown Says:
October 10, 2008 at 6:48 pm edit


Just curious, what do you think about other midwestern cities?

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 10, 2008 at 11:53 pm edit


First of all I live in Chicago. Second of all, you can’t really compare any other American city to New York as it is very original and with cultural and economical impact that is not rivaled by any other. Most of the Americans know New York from the movies and Hollywood made sure the safest big city in America is perceived as a dangerous, rough and uncultured place when it is so easy to prove otherwise.
How do I perceive other midwestern cities? Well, that does not matter, there can only be one New York and there is no need for every city to offer as much as it does… That’s fine. Chicago however likes to pretend it is in the same league as New York but it is as pointless as trying to prove that the Cubs are as good as the Yankees or Chicago Tribune is as good and interesting as New York Times. Chicagoans in general are tasteless and obnoxious megalomaniacs and like to think of other cities, including Midwestern ones, as inferior when in fact Chicago’s cultural and intellectual contribution is laughable. There is hardly an event or institution that would draw international crowd to Chicago, name one if you can, I dare you…

When I say almost everybody who is anybody lives in New York I am stating the fact not expressing Chicago’s wishful thinking. Just google for info, you’ll see. When you live in New York you are spoiled with easy access to cultural events as New York City alone spends more on art than National Endowment for the Arts in the entire US. There are more art galleries and theaters in the city than in most states… It is New York’s intellectual and cultural legacy that makes moving to another American city a painful experience. You are talking about tons of New Yorkers not smart enough to get to state schools. Well in New York smart kids do not go to state schools, remember, within 100 miles from New York you have Columbia, Princeton, Yale, Temple, NYU to name a few… Do those New Yorkers bash other cities cause they do not know any better? And what city can you compare to New York when it comes to access to culture and entertainment? Which city can rival New York as a center of intellectual and cultural life? The entire state of Indiana does not have the half of theaters or national publications that New York has…
frank, wishful thinking aside, just lookup wikipedia entry for New York and do some reading, please.

DarcKnyt Says:
October 11, 2008 at 12:02 am edit

Lost — In Shitcago’s defense, the CSO is a world-class orchestra, and draws recognition throughout the cultural world.

Aside from that, I can’t think of anything. But the CSO deserves the credit it’s due.

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 11, 2008 at 12:07 am edit


to make it easier for your, here is the link to famous New Yorkers:

Do some reading…

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 11, 2008 at 12:29 am edit


CSO – yes, absolutely world class with many, many Grammys.
Hard to disagree however having only one world class institution in the third largest city in the US still speaks for itself…

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
October 11, 2008 at 6:30 am edit

Regardless of how great the symphony is, Chicago still sucks. LOL.

I’ve just had an epiphany that any city with more than a million people has never existed until the few hundred years in human history.

Maybe its just too many people in too small an area?

I’m saying if any giant city wants to survive it better have some great culture, or its done.

franktown Says:
October 11, 2008 at 1:16 pm edit

Well, Lost, with respect to Ness, I’m not going to argue with you on this page. I really want you to come on over to my blog and dish your beef with Chicago with me. I DO have a lot to say to you, but I’m not going to say it all here. This IS an anti-Chicago site after all.

I do have brief things to say to you:
1) I and most Chicagoans admit it’s not on New York’s level. New York is an entirely different city (thank god!).
2) That said, just because any city is different than New York does not mean it lacks amusement and culture. New York is not a utopia, and there are many things to do in Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and other cities that you would never find in New York.
3) The fact that one doesn’t want to live in New York does not mean they hate New York. Most Chicagoans love New York but don’t want to live there because it’s so big. Is that so awful? I love New York, but gosh, I could never live there. I have more fun than I could ever ask for in Chicago.
4) The fact that ANY city has limitless access to cultural institutions means nothing. What about money? The people I live in New York rarely get to appreciate the city because everything is so expensive and they’re so poor. Once and a while they go to a Broadway show, a world class art gallery, and top rate nightclub, but most of the time, they do cheap things that can be found in Chicago. Hell, there are tons of things in Chicago that I can’t do because they’re so expensive. My point is, most people that live in New York live and work in New York. They don’t go out to plays and world class art institutions every weekend because everything there is so expensive.

I would LOVE to have you over to my site so we can dish it out. But this is an anti-Chicago site, and I want to keep my defensiveness tongue firmly in cheek, and I’m losing my patience with you (lol). I think you win the Ness’s Ant-Chicagoan of the year award!

P.S.- I got you confused with ‘Shitcagoan’. That’s why I thought you lived in FL. ‘Shitcagoan’ recently changed his/her name to ‘Floridian’ (a clever title) because of their relocation to the wonderful Sunshine State.

franktown Says:
October 11, 2008 at 1:18 pm edit


No kidding about your analogy of cities with 1 million+ people.

I also heard a civilization with more than a billion people can’t survive more than a couple hundred years.

The clock is ticking….

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 11, 2008 at 1:31 pm edit

Frank – I am very proud of you – I know that was a tough thing for you to do, and I thank you. ) *hug*

franktown Says:
October 11, 2008 at 3:34 pm edit

Haha, you’re welcome.

I cannot believe by the way the luck Chicago continues to have in baseball. At this rate, the next ice age will come before the Cubs win it all.

To top it off, IU sucks balls at football this year. Our worst loss was against Ball State. 42 to 26. What a rip off!

DarcKnyt Says:
October 11, 2008 at 3:54 pm edit

Frank — Maybe if IU didn’t suck Balls they wouldn’t BEATEN Balls instead? Hm.

I’d’ve thought BALL State would be more grateful for being sucked, but maybe common courtesy and gratitude have failed farther than I imagined.

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 11, 2008 at 3:55 pm edit

Frank – I hate baseball. I heard the Cubs lost though, and that was no surprise. Ice age? You mean, when hell freezes over? ;)

Sorry about IU football. I heard there was a player severely injured while playing against IU a few weeks ago, and wondered if you were at that game.

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 12, 2008 at 2:47 pm edit

Quotes from Elizabeth:
1) Chicago is an inspiring city full of culture.
Really? Like what?
2) I left New York (out of boredom, monotony) for Chicago 3 years ago, to compare the two cities in an exercise in futility. They are two very different places and each have their benefits and drawbacks.
Bored in New York so she moved to Chicago. Interesting. Again, care to elaborate?
3). and no O’Bama was not a typo….think about it morons
Here you go: name calling – prime example of Chicago culture )

This is typical Chicago BS spilled here everyday, bunch of empty statements and wishful thinking.. The one thing I agree is that you can’t compare New York and Chicago: different traditions, different legacy. I have no idea why Chicagoans do it all the time…

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 12, 2008 at 9:10 pm edit

Lost – While trolls like that only prove our point, in general they aren’t worth dealing with, and frankly, I just wasn’t in the mood today to bitch-slap some idiotic liberal Chicago lame-brains. It cracks me up how they come here after doing searches for “Chicago Sucks,” get mad when that’s what they find, and then think they’re going to insult us into submission. This isn’t a public forum, and 1st Amendment rights don’t apply here.

Like you said, typical Chicago BS. And I’ve had my fertilizer for the week. ;)

(And even Obama doesn’t use an apostrophe in his name! ROFLMAO Who’s the moron?)

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 13, 2008 at 10:07 am edit

franktown Says:
October 9, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I think you’re obviously a New Yorker in disguise

To set the record straight: I am not in any disguise. I already stated on this blog that I moved to Chicago about three years ago despite numerous warnings from my friends and folks who did the opposite route. You see as opposed to most Chicagoans I have a good point of reference, it is a very high standard but it is only applied here because I am tired of explaining to people that “Broadway in Chicago” is not exactly or even “pretty much the same” as Broadway and the abundance of restaurants and bars does not make Chicago culturally inspiring. It is what it is: food and liquor. Now, I do understand that the East Coast is older, ceased to be a farmland few generations ago and has been able to establish a real intellectual elite that has been setting a tone for the entire region therefore generally people there have different intellectual and cultural needs. This is in turn reflected in higher number of world-class theaters and cultural institutions per capita than in the Midwest. Period. Midwest is what it is, mostly a farmland and as I do not have anything against farmers, the farm experience is not exactly what I am looking for in a big city. What I am looking for instead is easy access to cultural and world-class entertainment if I can’t find it I do not really see a point of putting up with city traffic, congestion, higher cost of leaving etc etc and could as well be living in Florida to enjoy the weather. I am not saying every city has to be like New York, but I am saying there has to be a point to put up with big city nuisances and somehow Chicago appears like does not have much to offer in return. You can find excellent bars and restaurants all over Fort Lauderdale (Las Solas) not to mention South Beach Miami so why bother fighting constant Chicago congestion, mediocre public transportation system and absurdly high taxes here in Chicago?
Frank, you can write about Chicago whatever you want, like I said from Indiana, Dakotas, Nebraska, Ohio and Wisconsin the city may appear marvelous, lively and inspiring but from the East Coast or California perspective it is what it is, a dumb-down version of New York, all the hassle with no return.

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
October 13, 2008 at 10:24 am edit

All the hassle and no return, while trying to convince everyone that there is some sort of return.

And here in Cincinnati 1/10 the size and much less expensive, no one really cares about Chicago. They all know its just a giant version of their city times 10 with a slight attitude, tons of traffic, pollution, and terrible weather.

Go Reds. Go White Sox.

franktown Says:
October 13, 2008 at 8:59 pm edit

Lost, all I have to say is… FORGETABOUTIT!

Go to my page to read my reply on that last paragraph you wrote…you may be surprised.

franktown Says:
October 13, 2008 at 9:01 pm edit


Have you ever thought of visiting Bloomington for a weekend? It’s only two hours west of Cincy. Go to fuckin’ football game (preferably IU vs. Purdue). Don’t forget to get hammered during tailgating though before the game!

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
October 13, 2008 at 10:11 pm edit

You know frankie if I’m around there i’ll let you know. I’ve been there too. To the steak and shake at 430 in the morning, the most rediculous shit ever was seen there by my eyes.

It isn’t far, i’d need a caravan to go and i don’t know wh oi even know there anymore because i’m a super senior with 40 hours left

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 13, 2008 at 10:49 pm edit


Thanks for the invite but I kind of like this blog. I know this discussion is pointless. I can talk to you about culture and entertainment all day but you grew up in a state with five theaters and a local paper that treats opening of a new mall as a first page event. East Coast and Midwest, New York and Chicago are in different worlds. You won’t get how boring Chicago is for the same reason you won’t get why you can pick up a copy of New York Times and not Chicago Tribune in any airport in the world.

franktown Says:
October 14, 2008 at 12:30 am edit

LOL at Steak and Shake.

You must have went to the one on the north side where all the drunk students go after their parties lame down. Hilarious!

Art Says:
October 23, 2008 at 7:51 am edit

You’re linking to my blog (whyilovechicago.blogspot.com), and you say “Some people like it here. I doubt they’ve ever lived some place else to compare it to.”

What’s funny is that I’ve lived in Philadelphia, Chicago and Cleveland… but ultimately chose to move back to Chicago! I’m sorry if I’m taking offense to that statement (maybe I’m a bit biased), but try living in Cleveland and THEN tell me how much Chicago sucks…

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 23, 2008 at 10:47 pm edit

Art – Thanks for stopping by!

Well, I said that because in all the years I’ve lived here, I’ve yet to meet someone who’s ever lived anywhere else comparable, and didn’t prefer it. Nearly everyone I’ve met was born and raised here, has only been to Disney World or the Dells, and thinks Chicago is the greatest place on earth. Now, honestly, I don’t have a problem with people feeling that way. I envy them that feeling of absolutely loving where they live. I do have a problem with them telling me that I’m stupid, or a moron for not agreeing with them. It’s especially annoying when they agree with you on what the problems are – mostly the corruption in the government – but then they just shrug and say, “Well, around here you just gotta be tough, suck it up and deal wit’ it. That’s the Chicago way.” I figured I’d take my thoughts to blog, that maybe there were others who felt as I did, and I found a ton of support. I also know there are those out there who feel as you do, and that’s why I linked them to your blog, so they could go somewhere and be with like-minded people. ) If you don’t want me to keep your link up, please just say the word and it’s down ASAP.

I never said Cleveland was better than Chicago. ;) My point is that there are problems here and if we band together and get the word out, maybe we can change things for the better. And just because Cleveland or Detroit might suck, doesn’t mean that Chicago doesn’t suck too. The rally cry around here seems to be, “Well, at least we don’t suck as bad as [insert city here].” To me, that’s like hearing cancer patients say, “Well, at least we don’t have AIDS,” and then not doing anything to get well.

I’ve lived in other places too, and I know that Chicago doesn’t have to be like it is.

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 24, 2008 at 1:46 pm edit

“I do have a problem with them telling me that I’m stupid, or a moron for not agreeing with them. It’s especially annoying when they agree with you on what the problems are – mostly the corruption in the government – but then they just shrug and say, “Well, around here you just gotta be tough, suck it up and deal wit’ it. That’s the Chicago way.”


We all do have a problem with that or with the (in)famous “so move the hell out” response. Chicago is so immature and territorial about anything here that any hint of criticism is either brushed off or condemned. As a result nothing ever changes and Chicago currently has the highest crime rate, unemployment and taxes of all big cities.
If Russians were like this communism would last forever as nobody would dare to criticize the system or try to change it.
Chicagoans think they prove to be tough by not complaining where in fact they get less than a mediocre performance out of their governments, schools, sport teams etc etc.
Orwell would have a good laugh….

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 25, 2008 at 12:48 am edit

Lost – “If Russians were like this communism would last forever as nobody would dare to criticize the system or try to change it.”

You know, maybe that’s at the heart of my feelings about the place. It’s such a nanny-state already, and being the “hometown” of The One seems like socialist frosting on the nanny cake. I feel like Chicago is right on the edge of a cliff, and determined to take us all down with it.

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 25, 2008 at 4:19 pm edit

God save us from Chicago attitude spilling to the rest of the country. Stockholm syndrome, self-oppression or prison mentality whatever you call it is the absolute opposite of the foundation that this country was built on. Chicago is tough, Chicago is sucking it up while to the rest of the country it looks like just plain old stupidity. Chicago press is now contemplating why Chicago has more murders than LA or NY even though both cities are much bigger so in terms of murder per capita ration it looks even worse. Well, where have they been the last few years? FBI publishes their Uniform Crime Statistics on its website for everyone to see for a long time and it is not only the murder rate that’s higher than in LA and NY, Chicago is loses to these two cities in EVERY category…
Chicago again proves it has all the worst in the nation and to the sales tax, weather, professional baseball and postal service (abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5115335)
you can now add crime. Why exactly is Chicago so great?

J.R. (Chicago Withdrawal) Says:
October 26, 2008 at 7:17 pm edit

Well with Obama in the White House, I’m sure this country will be done.

Cook County Politician Anyone? Kool-aid anyone?

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 26, 2008 at 9:34 pm edit

Lost – Absolutely! The opposite of the foundation that this country was built on. What can we do to wake people up?


JR – I know! Can you imagine? I never thought I’d see the day when the rest of the country would tolerate the Cook Co BS too. It’s more than scary, it’s a nightmare come true.

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 26, 2008 at 9:45 pm edit

Stroger for Secretary of State? )

Lost In Chicago Says:
October 26, 2008 at 10:02 pm edit

I have a better one: Daley toe become a U.S. ambassador to Mongolia… How much damage could he do there?

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 28, 2008 at 12:48 am edit

Lost – Stop! You’re scaring me! I’m going to have even more nightmares now! Stephen King couldn’t write such horrifying stuff!


mchambers Says:
October 29, 2008 at 12:44 pm edit

‘I’ve lived in other places too, and I know that Chicago doesn’t have to be like it is’
I have to disagree with that, Dars. Humongous metro areas like Chicago, New York, LA, they DO have the most problems and will CONTINUE to because they are just simply bigger. The guy who said “try liing in Cleveland and THEN tell how much Chicago sucks” That is all just his opinion. Chicago is bigger. Not better. In fact, in most ways it is worse. Traffic, violent crime, politics, personal freedoms, accessibility, quality of people.
If I want to see the Chicago museums, CSO, or other cultural thinngs, I can see them by taking a trip to Chicago or New York for a weekend. I don’t need to live in a place where the people are grumbling, passive aggressive road ragers like Chicago. The big cities WEAR on them and it’s visible, and they don’t even realize it. Chicago and New York both have the highest rates of chronic stress, depression, heart disease and hypertension. It’s not a coincidence. It’s a stressful environment and with no real substance. Once you’ve seen the Sears Tower for the billionth time and the giant bean, you’ve seen the extent of how Chicago is different. All other aspects you can find in other cities very easilly nowadays.

DarcsFalcon Says:
October 29, 2008 at 2:02 pm edit

Mchambers – Well, you are right about all the things you mentioned. My point though is more about the government of the city, the absolute corruption there. THAT doesn’t have to be like it is – the people can vote all those snakes out of office and vote in new people who aren’t corrupt … but they don’t. They could vote for term limits but they don’t. That’s what I mean when I say it doesn’t HAVE to be this way. The people here are CHOOSING this way.

Lost In Chicago Says:
November 1, 2008 at 10:06 pm edit


I would agree with you about Chicago. Sears Tower and the Bean wears of as novelty really quick. Other then these Chicago does not have much to offer or it is not really different than other citities in the region bar its size, however, New York is a totally different story.
Yes it is big and stressful but it also offers a breathtaking experience of living in a global cultural hub. I know Hollywood pictures New York differently but we all know where they publish New York Times, Newsweek, Time and where most of the US publishing houses are located. This plus incredible number of world-class cultural institutions really define this city and make living there interesting and worthwhile. I would also argue that living in New York is healthier than anywhere else just because you are forced to walk daily and in most cases do not need a car to live there, more often a case than anywhere else in the US.
I know this is not ‘I love New York’ blog but when moving to Chicago I made a mistake assuming that the third largest US city would offer at least a 30% of what New York does and after three years here still can’t help but compare this city to the one I miss. I wrote this here already but my problem with Chicago is that it offers all the big city vices, in fact it is worse than NY and LA in many aspects like taxes, crime, corruption, but as opposed to New York does not offer anything unique or original in return. What’s the point? You can get drunk and fat anywhere in the world…

Lost In Chicago Says:
November 1, 2008 at 11:10 pm edit


I forgot to add I love New Yorkers for being witty, straightforward and socially adjusted. I love the fact that I can walk to a pizza place and have a interesting conversation with the people I just met and not a polite and meaningless exchange of pleasantries like it happens most of the time in Chicago. I love the fact that people there hold doors for others and say ’sorry’ when step on other person’s foot on the train. New Yorkers are so different than Chicagoans, so much better equipped to deal with big city life. When personal space is so scarce as in New York you learn to appreciate it and respect other people’s personal space as well. In the city that favors individualism and creativity you learn to let others live without judgment or prejudice. In a city as diverse as New York you learn to appreciate differences between people and not ridicule them. That’s what makes New York so unique and this is where Chicago really lacks. To all the people that complain about New Yorkers being rude I would like to say I have never seen people more rude and with worse manners than Chicagoans. It’s unbelievable what these “polite people” sometimes do and say. It’s as if they glanced over a book on etiquette but do not understand basic concept of being polite, what can and can’t be said and done in presence of other people. Chicago being polite and friendly? That’s a real joke.

mchambers Says:
November 3, 2008 at 5:22 pm edit

Yes I agree Lost. We took a vacation in 2007 to New York City and visited Manahatten island and also Queens. Along the way we stopped in Philly and Baltimore. ALL of the people we encountered in Philly and New York were some of the friendliest we’ve met. I used to think Chicagoans were the nicer folks as far as big cities go. It’s exactly the opposite. Like you said, Chicagoans are more polite small talk and basically being standoffish or even rude to anyone outside their clique. Many I’ve encountered have a distinct gang mentality.
Their are exceptions OK? But since Chicagoans like to speak very generally when calling themselves “friendly midwesterners” then we should be able to generalize about the sub-par behavior of Chicagoans when compared to New York. There was a noticable difference in the people. The New Yorkers were definately more quirky and neurotic, but very personable and accepting of others who were obviously not from New York. It is a TRUE melting pot. Chicago is a club. And if you don’t worship the Cubs or like their pizza, they get defensive and ornery. The fact that people outside Chicago mistake the term “Second City” for “Second to New York” really drives them up the wall and is one small reason they are the way they are. In New York, they realize, and have for a very long time, that it’s OK to be from another city in America, or another country in the world. Chicago is unfortunately a STARK opposite. Their is much closet racim in Chicago. I’ve seen it first hand for decades, and nothing ever changes. There is also alot of slighting that goes on, alot of thumbing of the nose to anything not Chicago. In that way, it sometimes feels like Siberia.

Lost In Chicago Says:
November 5, 2008 at 1:35 pm edit


It is a cultural and intellectual Siberia. It is alos a psyhological siberia as people routinely display behavior that would be considered immature anywhere else in the country. I see people who are defensive to the point it is absurd l)ike defending Sox or Cubs or talking down New York or LA on grounds of culture or entertainment), I am talking about people openly patronizing their employees in public, people who laugh out loud when looking at other people. I am talking about people that lack basic social skills and are unable to have a honest conversation, that are spiteful, racist and hypocritical. I am talking about people who are so scared they avoid eye contact with strangers…. Tension and angry looks everywhere, nobody is laid back, nobody is easy-going.

I can’t believe a big city can be so retarded.

mchambers Says:
November 6, 2008 at 8:58 am edit

Wow. that bad eh? One thing I can relate to…when we lived near Chicago, our neighbors were not the friendliest. And we lived in several spots of the city over several years. I guess you also just get tired of the winters. It’s a common complaint. Everyone tells me I will miss the snow. Fat chance. My wife also could care less if she sees another snowflake as long as she lives. I think I’ve probabaly seen over 500 feet of snow in my life. That’s enough.

Lost In Chicago Says:
November 6, 2008 at 4:36 pm edit


What good is snow for in Chicago where there is no decent slope within hundred of miles? Going skiing for the weekend and living 5 months shoveling snow are two different stories.
Yeah, Chicago is bad but I was warned before I moved here.
My fault.

Allison Says:
November 6, 2008 at 6:56 pm edit

This site is great. Thank you. We moved here in March and I hate it and I haven’t even been through one of the winters that everyone who I meet here goes on and on about. I have lived in six other cities in the west and I would go back to any of them in a heartbeat. Here are some things that I hate about Chicago…Every time I see someone dangling a cigarette out of their car window, I know that it is just a matter of time before they throw it out the window – the world is their ashtray. Every time I put my recycle in the trash in the alley, I see that some idiot has thrown in items like Styrofoam cups and paintbrushes. This is a city of many bad smells! Every day I read the paper about the corruption and the murders. Finally, I don’t feel that people here are all that friendly. At least we are just renting so we can move away if the opportunity presents itself.

Lost In Chicago Says:
November 6, 2008 at 8:22 pm edit


Be careful when you talk to people here. They smile and are “friendly” but will use anything you say against you in a blink of an eye. Not too many well-wishers here and no sense of humor whatsoever…

INdySIN Says:
November 6, 2008 at 10:49 pm edit

Lost In Chicago- Good advice you gave to Allison. Most new people have to get bitten a few times before they find out that the Deadly Urban Chicagoan never smiles in friendliness… but that they, -like most vicious and predatory creatures- are only baring their teeth because they think they smell fresh meat!

Mr T. Says:
November 6, 2008 at 11:26 pm edit

No, not the real Mr. T! Shut up fool!
My name is Jeremy T. and I hail from Wilmette IL (on da nort side of Chicago) A pal of mine saw this site and we were reading some of the post. I’m down with a little hometown bashing! I can’t explain why I used to love Chicago so much. I guess it was the arts? Well not really. The Lyric Opera? Come on. The museums? Seen ‘em. The Lake? eh. The sassy citizens with chips on their shouldesr? Please. The food? Well that depends these days. We’ve been pretty unlucky lately finding good NEW restaurants downtown. There were a couple great ones in Wrigleyville, but they shut down! I think this city is taking on too many big city burdens and not offering enough in return. Taxes and costs are through the roof and are not going down. Maybe Obama will get us a new set of freeways! The glitz of Chi-Town really wears off after a while. I am ready to move on from the city of Big Shoulders and onto a more stable and less stressful environment. Too many little gangsters here too, even in lovely Wilmette. And you can’t ignore it. Chicago is in the running for Murder Capital USA again. Just more incentive to get the HELL out!

INdySIN Says:
November 6, 2008 at 11:49 pm edit

Hey Mr T. Totally agree with you about those taxes and little ganster punks! You’ve come to the right place cause, “Ain’t no Chicago luvin’ suckas up in here!” : )

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 7, 2008 at 12:03 am edit

Allison – Welcome! Well, to the blog anyway! LOL I’ve found that many folks who move to Chicago don’t feel very welcome at all, and you seem to be another one. I’m sorry about that. You’re right, it’s not a very friendly city, which seems to be one of the chief complaints. I hope that opportunity you mentioned presents itself soon – before the winter sets in!

Come back soon!

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 7, 2008 at 12:04 am edit

Indy – “fresh meat” ROFLMAO!! That was good! D

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 7, 2008 at 12:07 am edit

Mchmbers – Hey, I grew up without snow and never missed it. ;) There’s something wonderful about green Christmases! Personally, I never got what the thrill was about a white one either. So no, you won’t miss the snow. And anyone who tells you otherwise has no clue the depth of loathing we have for snow.

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 7, 2008 at 12:20 am edit

Mr. T – Welcome! I confess, I’m really surprised to see someone such as yourself here. Most people who visit my blog – at least those who comment – are not native Chicagoans but have moved here. Most natives hate me, and I’ve had to delete more than 1 foul mouthed tirade. So you are a refreshing perspective. )

Murder Capital USA. Scary, isn’t it. I don’t know why the crime is so much worse here than other cities. Perhaps the people see all the corruption in government and think since it’s okay for the officials, it’s okay for them too?

Yes, it is stressful and unstable here. It’s hard to make a decent life. I hope you can get out soon! My husband calls it “achieving escape velocity.” Please visit again and let us know how you’re doing. It’s always nice to have a fresh perspective on things. )

Lost In Chicago Says:
November 7, 2008 at 11:43 am edit

Actually it was not as bad as in 2006 as it was number 5 on the over 1M cities list and number 2 on the over 2M cities list.

City Population Murder Rate
Philadelphia 1,435,533 0.0273%
Houston 2,169,544 0.0162%
Dallas 1,239,104 0.0161%
Chicago 2,824,434 0.0157%
Phoenix 1,541,698 0.0138%
Los Angeles 3,870,487 0.0102%
San Antonio 1,316,882 0.0093%
Las Vegas 1,341,156 0.0089%
New York 8,220,196 0.0060%
San Diego 1,261,196 0.0047%

Interestingly, Chicago had a higher murder rate than full of tourist and drifters New York and Vegas or “gang infested” LA…. Can you imagine a Chicagoan’s face when you would explain that you are moving to New York or LA for the safety of your children… ) That’s hard to dispute facts, though…

FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_08.html

franktown Says:
November 9, 2008 at 10:31 pm edit

Hey Ness!

long time no talk:). I’ve been so busy with tests and papers in the past four weeks that i haven’t got a moment to breathe. Anyway, I appreciate your concern over my silence, but everything’s okay over here. I’m finally winding down on my load of work, so you should be hearing more from me in the weeks to come. )

How are you? It’s nice to see the gang all here (with additional new friends I see you’ve made). Lost is still here…. well, he’s lost I guess.

I heard about the murder rate too. What can I say? Chicago’s Gotham City! I’m happy to say that I live in a city (well, for part of the year anyway) that’s known for something. Grittiness, crime, drunkenness, and murder. What more can a man ask for?

Los Angeles isn’t far behind, neither is Phoenix. Got to hand it to New York though… it really does know how to pull it’s strings. But this is anti Chicago site!!!

P.S- how’s about that obama nomination? You’ll hate me, but I actually ended up voting for him (can you believe the state of Indiana went DEMOCRATIC??) I feel bad for poor Palin. Maybe I’ll vote for her in 2012 if he screws up.
November 11, 2008 at 1:10 am edit

Frank! There you are! Sheesh, I was getting worried!

Yep, a few new friends. We are a growing community over here, as the word gets out.

No, I don’t hate you for totally going against your principles and everything you claimed to believe in by voting for Obama. *sigh* I guess you’re still figuring all that stuff out. And I know you love to try to rile me. ;)

You did ace your tests right? All that silence amounted to something, right? Did you ever say what you were majoring in?

And next time don’t be gone so long!

Lost In Chicago Says:
November 12, 2008 at 12:47 pm edit

INdySIN Says:
November 6, 2008 at 10:49 pm
“Lost In Chicago- Good advice you gave to Allison. Most new people have to get bitten a few times before they find out that the Deadly Urban Chicagoan never smiles in friendliness… but that they, -like most vicious and predatory creatures- are only baring their teeth because they think they smell fresh meat!”


(Almost) Everyone in Chicago is miserable and people get off by denigrating other people. Open and friendly “fresh meat” is just another opportunity to feel better at the expense of others. So unrefined and childish. This is, by the way, why Chicago loves the Cubs and Sox – as constant losers they make everyone feel comfortable and adequate. Chicago does not tolerate success, success of other generates envy and hatred here. Why should you be less miserable than the rest of us?

Lost In Chicago Says:
November 13, 2008 at 3:44 pm edit

franktown Says:
November 9, 2008 at 10:31 pm
“I heard about the murder rate too. What can I say? Chicago’s Gotham City! I’m happy to say that I live in a city (well, for part of the year anyway) that’s known for something. Grittiness, crime, drunkenness, and murder. What more can a man ask for? Los Angeles isn’t far behind, neither is Phoenix. Got to hand it to New York though… it really does know how to pull it’s strings. But this is anti Chicago site!!!”

That’s what I am talking about, instead of acknowledging the issues and looking for solutions let’s instead sweep ‘em under the rug and cover with a quip about Chicago being “Gotham City”. Well, the thing is Chicago is NOT and never WAS “Gotham City”, check Wikipedia for correct info. The thing is that this is exactly the “Chicago way” of solving problems or rather not solving them at all, which makes any progress in Chicago physically impossible.
It’s nothing to laugh about when you think of murder victims and their families. It’s nothing to laugh about when you realize that a city three times smaller than New York, a city that is not a major international hub, not a major tourist destination, not located near any densely populated areas yet still manages to have more murders than the City of New York. Safe and friendly midwestern town, where did it go?

When I first moved to Chicago I always felt Chicago PD officers look and act like NYPD rejects: most of way too old and way too fat to be UNIFORMED officers. Also from my experience most of them lack basic analytical and communication skills. NYPD on the other hand requires a college degree to join and a yearly physical to stay on the force. NYPD requires cops to wear uniforms (with exceptions of course) that are always complete (always with headgear on) and clean. NYPD does not allow its officers to have beards nor visible tattoos. The largest police department in the nation (over 30,000 officers) is run with efficiency and discipline of a regular army and does not resemble a bunch of newly promoted security guards from a suburban mall which was my first impression of Chicago PD.

No Frank, I do not think New York does “know how to pull it’s strings”, I think New York simply knows how to demand and expect performance. New York has spoken long time ago and gave the mayor’s job to an ex-prosecutor who promised to clean the streets and give neighborhoods back to the people who live there… It was his first priority and NYPD and it’s commissioner, who by the way now runs LAPD, was made responsible for what the department was originally created: to ensure public safety in the City of New York. It worked, just look at the stats, from the crime infested rathole in the 80’s to the safest large city in America, quite a trip…

That’s why, Chicago’s urbanite wannabes, it is really OK to complain. It does not mean you are negative, it means you are assertive. It does not mean you are a part of the problem, it means you are for the resolution and since you do your part by paying your taxes you have the right to demand the goverment to deliver their part ensure safety on the streets.
You don’t have to pretend you are super-positive and live in laid-back LA or intellectual New York: those two cities already fought and won the battle and are far ahead in terms of crime rates and police efficiency. You have to put your foot down and demand from your elected and future politicians that the streets are safe and the neighborhoods belong to the people!

I realize that it is much easier to make jokes but I do not think this is a subject to make any jokes at all, unless of course, you are trying to prove that you are utterly inconsiderate and insensitive to the suffering of the murdered and their families and don’t care for your own and your family’s safety either….
Now, joke away Chicago. You are still better than Rio de Janeiro….

Gryphon Says:
November 14, 2008 at 3:26 pm edit

A bunch of whiney, cry baby chicagoans get together to complain about….whiney, cry baby chicagoans. All I can say, you have all become everything you rail against. Fritter away the hours with your angst…it is all, so very Chicago of you.


Born and bred in the south suburbs of Chicago
Resident of the city for a decade
Living in NYC for the past 8 years.

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 14, 2008 at 5:30 pm edit

Gryphon – just another typical Chicago attitude, nothing we haven’t seen before. Funny thing, you sought us out, not the other way around. And it boggles my mind that you spent so much time here, if you hate our opinion so much. Talk about frittering away the hours!

But despite what you think, we are entitled to our opinion, and the right to express it. However, this is not a public forum. I decide what gets allowed here and what doesn’t. You’ve come in here, being generally rude and insulting. I’ll take it with a grain of salt, considering the source. But you will not be allowed to level hateful name-calling slurs against any of my commenters here. You’ve been deleted once. Do it again, you’ll be banned.

Mr T. Says:
November 15, 2008 at 12:03 pm edit

Hey, did you hear? The city’s newest big deal is on hold now because of the economy. Apparently they were going to “erect” the world’s largest dildo and call it the Chicago Spire. Kudos for Chicago for being ahead of the game when it comes to building their skyscrapers taller, but compared to New York, Chicago buildings are fairly ugly and mundane. Like the people.

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 16, 2008 at 8:18 pm edit

Mr. T. – Hey! Good to see you back! Yeah, I heard about that.

They’ll have to finish it and call it the Obama Spire now, I’m sure, regardless of the economy. ;)

Lost In Chicago Says:
November 17, 2008 at 10:25 am edit

“Gryphon Says:
November 14, 2008 at 3:26 pm
A bunch of whiney, cry baby chicagoans get together to complain about….whiney, cry baby chicagoans. All I can say, you have all become everything you rail against. Fritter away the hours with your angst…it is all, so very Chicago of you.

Nice try ) Yeah, we know, we should be tough and just grin and bear it. Hell, we should actually praise Chicago and its high taxes, corrupt government, rich midwestern culture and intellectual superiority to the rest of the world. Aren’t the Cubs the bestest team in the world, after all? You got to believe, right? You GOT to!

HatesCityCorn Says:
November 17, 2008 at 11:37 am edit

Gryphon is obviously blinded by what he perceives to be the awesomeness of Chicago, or he’s been in bed with some of it’s corrupt politicians. Perhaps if I enjoyed paying the incredible taxes, or went to an ivy league university then I too would be able to see the sheer greatness of it all. Surely a person of your stature cannot understand why negative comments are made about Chicago on a blog which titles itself “Why I think Chicago sucks”. Another interesting note, you’ve left Chicago. Living in NYC has obviously clouded your memory of the abyss that is Chicago, maybe you should visit again for longer than a weekend.


Lost in Chicago Says:
November 17, 2008 at 1:35 pm edit

Yeah, I bet Gryphon moved to New York and since nobody reacted to his stories about Chicago’s greatness (nobody cared enough to question them, maybe until he started praising da Cubs and da Sox which even New Yorkers could not stand) he is now looking for sites where he can freely express his love for tasteless pizza and public transportation systems that only goes downtown. I guess it must really feel lonely in New York for a Chicagoan: not a decent corn-dog in sight and those damn stuck-ups insist on reading New York times instead of Redeye or the Trib… Where is a man to find his news without the Red? Those damn New York pussies even say “Excuse me” and “Sorry” instead of just giving out angry looks. Pussies.

Indefenseofchitown Says:
November 17, 2008 at 9:02 pm edit

I lived in alot of places since serving in the military gave me the opportunity to experience new areas. When I got back from Operation Desert Storm I landed in California and waiting for us were these combat vets from the Vietnam War revving up there motorcycles and throwing us sixpacks of beers. I fell in love with San Diego from that day foward. Unfortunately I was headed back to Philadelphia to finish my tour before picking my next command. When I got off and I had to wait for a cab to take me back to that dreaded city. The piece of shit cabbie that was hailed would not take me cause he wouldn’t make any money.

Here I am in full combat desert camo and this Philadelphian piece of shit wouldnt take this serviceman back to his command. He stated he wouldnt make any money for that fare and was forced to take me due to intervention by airport security. When he asked me if I was out “there” and coming from and I told him “Yeah and I wish I was back in California than Shitidelphia. He looked twice in that mirror and looked away cause he saw I was pissed. HMMMMM…. sounds like rude as the Chicago people you talk about.

Everywhere I walked on south street there was hints of anti-military hostility. Placards posted everywhere sayin how the military were “baby killers.” What do you expect from a city that harbors cop killers. Oh yeah east coast pizza…. pfftttt! Give me a break! Flimsy and nothing there. Not too mention I got robbed point blank with a sawed off shotgun on broad and south getting into the subway. By the way Philly/New Jersey gets cold and miserable but doesnt snow cause of the layer of acid caused by spite over the delaware valley. I also spent two miserable weeks in some Naval Air Station pig sty in Jersey with some of the rudest civillian retirees ever.

New Jersey hmmmm…. goddamn you got the nerve. Fuckin rude and nasally. You ever been to Treton….. can you say shithole! New York was dirty and Washington DC literally a hellhole. I lived on Camp Lejeune in North Carolina and my God those people are bigots. Everyday I waited to go back to the city by the Lake…. thats right CHICAGO! If I had a 3 day weekend I left in a heartbeat to go back home.

Thats until I got my dream command….. thats right CAMP PENDLETON California. I left all you east coasters to your shitholes and fell in love with the west when I first deployed to Chemical Warfare training at Pendleton. “I LOVE LA” and San Diego rocks. Sure I was there when LA rioted. I also came back from Somalia to be greeted by the wonderful California VFW saying thanks and applications to join the VFW. Girls in bikinis and bands playing outside. Good California punk rock was the norm. Always a good time in California. I miss it to this day. In fact I not only lived there but did joint ops in New Mexico. I love the Desert!

Now I live in my hometown of Chicago. I dream of living elsewhere but I will be damned if someone living east claims thier piece of area or city is nicer than Chicago. I actually want to move to Austin (KEEP AUSTIN WEIRD) Texas cause its the music capital of the world. My war buddy who lives there and is from Florida is talking me to moving. He is from Ft Lauderdale but doesn’t mention it. We both talk of Cali with fondness and eventually will bike it back up there.

Your gonna have high taxes everywhere you go. I will admit that I cannot stand to live out here at time not due to the weather but the democratic machine. Thats anywhere near your big cities! I do know I’d rather live in California, AZ, New Mexico or awesome Austin but fuck ever going back to the east coast.

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 17, 2008 at 10:07 pm edit

HatesCityCorn – Welcome to the club! I had to laugh at your line, “Surely a person of your stature cannot understand why negative comments are made about Chicago on a blog which titles itself “Why I think Chicago sucks”.” I still don’t get why people do that. The searches that lead here show up as “Chicago sucks” so I can only wonder why people are doing a search for that, then get upset when that’s what they find.

Hope to see you again. )

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 17, 2008 at 10:14 pm edit

InDefense – First of all, thank you for your service. *salute* You have my undying gratitude for that.

Mostly, it’s the Democratic machine here that aggravates me. For the life of me, I can’t understand why people keep voting the same politicians back into office. Sure, high taxes are in many places, but Chicago has the highest of them all. That’s maddening, considering we also have the highest murder rate too. The only bang we’re getting for our buck comes literally from gangbangers.

I’m glad you like CA (my birth state), the weather is beautiful there down in the southern part. I hope you do make it back there. )

Thanks for stopping by, and thank you again for your service. It’s because of people like you that we have the freedoms we have.

DarcKnyt Says:
November 18, 2008 at 8:26 am edit

InDefense — My family and I thank you for your service, sir. *Salute*

Lost in Chicago Says:
November 18, 2008 at 11:26 am edit


Yeah, yeah yeah, Phily is all anti-war commie lovers, New York is dirty, Chicago pizza is the best and North Carolinians are all bigots. That’s a Red Eye style review of the world: simplistic, plausible and implying any analytical skills on the part of the reader. Implied however is that Chicago is all pro-war, the streets here are clean and smell like roses, greasy dough pizza is outstanding, there is no racial discrimination whatsoever (just look at all those mixed race neighborhoods in Chicago:) ) and cab drivers courteous and friendly… When was the last time you’ve been to Chicago??? )

The Artisit fomerly known As J.R. Says:
November 18, 2008 at 2:36 pm edit

Dig the graphics Lost–

My brother just went to NYC and was amazed, and mezmorized by it and was like “YOU NEED TO GO THERE!” to me. That city can apparently make people jump out of their seat.

I’m comfortable where I am at, but just wanted to poke my head in and say, “Hey Chicago–you are not New YorK–you suck”

Lost in Chicago Says:
November 18, 2008 at 3:29 pm edit


I believe that. New York is not just a city, that’s a global center of culture, entertainment and business. The place is so unique and original that it can change your entire perspective on the world. Chicago’s wishful thinking aside, that’s the only American city that has any standing in the world. Go there, experience it, you either going to love or hate, there is no third way but the experience itself is breathtaking and you can always come back.
Every time I go back to New York I feel alive again just by looking at people around me. Unfortunately the feeling disappears as soon as I look at those empty and angry Chicago faces and endure the city filled with small-town pretentiousness and misery. There is no ‘joy de vivre’ in Chicago but you can feel it all around in New York: that’s the New York State of mind…

PS. Can’t really see the grpahics, the thumbnail is too small.

franktown Says:
November 20, 2008 at 2:09 pm edit

Lost, I believe it is the opposite with New York. I never heard the words “sorry” in the subway when people bumped into me, I never heard he words “excuse me” whenever people stepped on my feet. In fact, I RECEIVED dirty looks from people BECAUSE I apologized and was friendly to them. Whenever I asked for directions everyone ignored me. In Chicago, I frequently see people helping tourists and I always give helpful directions. In fact, in New York, I saw frequent fights in the subways between hobos and commuters, and panhandlers constantly bombarded me. If that’s only a Chicago problem to you, I don’t know what else is!

At IU, New Yorkers tend to have a nasty reputation. You see, they make up about at least 20% of the out state population and tend to cause a lot of havoc. Not drunk, fun havoc. The kind of havoc that just pisses people off. They constantly talk about how “New York is the shit” and how “Jersey is where it’s at”. They tell us Midwesterners to stop talking in our “Indiana accents” and call us “hicks that shouldn’t know any better”. When telling a New Yorker that I was from a town in Indiana, he said to me “Oh, how embarrassing”.

THESE are people you claim to be down to Earth and friendly? This is the attitude that pisses people off at IU. Whenever anybody from NY hears anything good from another person about ANY other city, it’s always “well, forget it, because compared to NYC, it sucks”. And you my friend, are doing the same thing. You’re comparing NYC to Chicago even though there’s zero to compare.

And yet, through all my venting of NYC, it’s still my second favorite city in the country and I love it. Why? Even though I’m a down to earth, friendly, midwestern Chicago party boy (and not a cosmopolitan, metro rich New Yorker), I can handle it. I prefer to watch gritty sports, tailgate, and go to bars, but like the new experience of having to dress up to go to a high tech NYC club (even though the alcohol is unbelievably expensive and you can’t get drunk for beans). I like having to go to expensive Broadway plays once in a while. I can deal with the attitude many NYC’ers display (the kind Lost has), because it’s rather entertaining to me. And really, I don’t mind all the dirty looks from people in NY when I tell them I’m from Indiana (at least in Chicago they couldn’t give a damn).

I just like Chicago more because people can AFFORD to do the things the city has to offer. I have recent graduates who moved to NY and are trying to leave because they’re bored off their ass. Not because the city sucks (NYC has the most to do out of any city here) but because all they can afford to do in their tiny apartment the size of my bathroom (that they pay nearly $3000/month to live in by the way and is infested with bugs) is work, eat, and sleep. Once in a while, yes, they go to a Broadway play. Once in a while, yes, they buy an $80 ticket to an art gallery or a concert. Once in a while, yes, they go out to eat at a fabulous restaurant Lost speaks of and pay $40 for a meal the size of a can of soup. But for most people in NY, if you don’t make over 80k a year, life is simply blue-collar. That’s why they want to move back to Chicago, where they can actually afford to live, work, AND play. And that’s why I love it. Because I can do all three there.

franktown Says:
November 20, 2008 at 2:15 pm edit


Regardless of your Chicago views, I stand with Ness and her husband in also commending you for serving our country! Thank you very much for being so brave!

To J.R. –

What is with this Artist name? I say delete it and go back to Chicago Withdrawal. It just suits you to perfectly.

One more thing to Lost –

Cab drivers usually are assholes everywhere, EXCEPT for the ones in Indy. They tend to talk about where they came from (???) and their families to their riders for some reason. Must be out of boredom I guess. )

Lost in Chicago Says:
November 20, 2008 at 5:19 pm edit


I start to believe you never set foot in New York. I say it cause I know you would not get a dirty looks for saying you are from Indiana. Just think, in the city where half the people are from other corners of the world… Do you really think anybody gives a d…n where you are from?
I also realized you are clueless when you mentioned 80K as a low threshold income for New York. That’s just a silly statement considering that Chicago’s downtown is not dirt cheap neither… Is $80K going to buy you a lot there? You’d be surprised )

You say your friends are moving to Chicago where “they can afford to work and play”. What do you mean by “play” then? Going to bars and getting hammered senseless? Or maybe going to the movies? There is no Broadway/off-Broadway theater life in Chicago, nothing on a comparable performance level, there is no vast music scene, there are no top-notch social events, no incredible food from around the world.
How do I know? I can explain if you ask me for it.

You seem to be confabulating so I am only going to tell you that the reason New York City is so populous is that for most people it does make sense to endure higher cost of living for the benefits they get in return. For the fact that they can ditch their cars, do not have to get on a plane to see a decent theater play or a band, get fantastic food from all over the world for much cheaper than in anywhere else (there is so much more competition which drives the prices down) and live in a place that you can go for a walk at 3:00 am if you chose so and see other people in the street instead of only cars…
Living in New York means being “right there” and also means access to a largest job market in the US…
You are missing the point Frank. Just go to New York and forget you are from Midwest for a day or two. Maybe you will find out what really makes the city such a desirable destination for so many people… Believe me, it has nothing to do with “high tech clubs for which you have to dress up and drinks are expensive”. There are plenty of those in Chicago and anywhere else.

franktown Says:
November 20, 2008 at 7:21 pm edit

You’re right. When I told people I was from Indiana and gave them a smile, they just smiled like back and talked to me like they were interested. *chuckles* Yeah right, New York was so fast paced nobody had the time to strike up a conversation with me, not even at a pawn shop. Whether it be on the compact subway where you couldn’t breathe or the Mets stadium, I felt no sense of friendliness from New Yorkers. I tried to talk to a couple of Mets fans next to me about the game, and they just ignored me. The few words they said to me were “move your damn drink please!”

I thought that people in New York were a**holes… BIG a**holes, and mind you, I’m an asshole myself, but am Princess Bride compared to the people I had to deal with there.

But did that change the fact that I loved New York? No! I took it, and eventually just learned to shut up and go on with my life. I couldn’t stop and hold a conversation, smile, or party hardcore like I did in Chicago. Whenever I got drunk at a party I was looked down upon (whereas in Chicago it’s looked highly upon). I got used to it, and for the two weeks I was there, I hung tough and got through and loved it.

Everything positive about New York Lost that you say is true, but I still prefer Chicago, which seemingly to you, is in and of itself an automatic “F-you to New York”.

Regarding the “high tech club” statement you made being in Chicago. Of course there are those in Chicago, but the majority of Chicago drinking is hardcore partying and socializing with fun dancing thrown in, not cosmopolitan fancy schmancy bullshit. And my response is: Everything positive you listed about New York culture is present in Chicago, whether they be at greater or smaller numbers.

franktown Says:
November 20, 2008 at 7:25 pm edit

Have you been to Spice in Greenwhich Village, Lost? Pad Thai was $17.50, twice the prices of Chicago. Shwarma at a Middle Eastern restaurant was $10.00, whereas in Chicago it’s $5 or $6. Food is more expensive in New York.

Also regarding the downtown issue, I’d never want to live “downtown” in Chicago. I’d prefer either the newly renovated areas on the South Side or places like Lakeview or Lincoln Park… also VERY expensive areas.

franktown Says:
November 21, 2008 at 8:39 am edit

Anyway… can you believe the news that they talked about on the radio?

Chicago is supposed to have a winter up to 40% milder than usual! I don’t believe it. It’s 35 degrees right now outside in a town 250 miles south of the city!

I don’t know if it’s a blessing or a curse. Global warming anyone?

Lost in Chicago Says:
November 21, 2008 at 10:11 am edit


They were just trying to be nice. That’s New York. You have people from all over the world, UN is headquartered over there. Do you think there is anything exciting about Indiana in comparison )

You still don’t get the point. Your sense of friendliness is that you EXPECT strangers to react certain way and if they do not your reaction is disappointment and anger (for some people here). I have seen it many time in Chicago but also every day with my five years old )

That’s very immature and have nothing to do with friendliness. If someone does not want to talk to you you can’t impose on them your will to have a conversation. That’s part of being friendly and well-adjusted. Friendliness is well-wishing to people you just met and not passing judgement (here we go Midwest) but it is also respect for others and their will.
Because of its legacy bot farmland and blue collar, most Midwesterners find it very difficult to express what they want or deal with social situations. Most of the time they act like little kids, shy and unable to deal with anything. I see it on the road all the time when a miniscule altercation quickly evolves into full blown road rage… Very immature and unrefined…

PS. Did you see the movie weatherman? Cage as a weatherman gets hit with a soda in the streets of Chicago just because he is on TV and popular. You get it? He is popular but this is Chicago so people do not react the normal way like cheering, asking for autographs etc etc. Instead they throw a soda.
Do you know wno why there are virtually no living celebrities living in Chicago and hundreds of them in New York? Simply because it would never happen over there.
I am afraid you won’t get it. Growing in a big city teaches you how to deal with people and situations you are surrounded with 24/7. You just have to get well-adjusted and laid back or you go nuts…
It’s hard to replicate this experience anywhere else…

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 21, 2008 at 2:45 pm edit

Lost – Wait a minute – are you saying that farm and blue-collar people don’t know how to be social and friendly?

Lost in Chicago Says:
November 21, 2008 at 3:01 pm edit


No, they do but in their own special way, not exactly generally acceptable one.

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 21, 2008 at 3:29 pm edit

Frank – It’s only in the upper 20’s today. I’ll believe that warming trend when I see it. As for AGW, well, count me with the skeptics on that one. Global temps have shown a cooling trend for the last decade so my fear is that it’ll be colder than normal here, and back to the -20’s I remember from shortly after I moved here. Can you say -80 windchill? Yikes!

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 21, 2008 at 3:33 pm edit

Lost – I think I’m going to disagree with you on that one. My experience has been that farm folks and blue collar people tend to be friendlier than say, upper management types. They’re less pretentious and elitist, more open to a friendly smile. Some people have a chip on their shoulder, no question, but I don’t think it’s the farmers and factory workers.

Lost in Chicago Says:
November 21, 2008 at 7:48 pm edit


Why upper management and not lower management? Why are you discriminating? ) The entire white collar blue collar concept is obsolete anyway and only valid in historical concept: some blue collar workers like programmers or airline pilots make much more than many white collar workers…
Anyways, I am only saying that cat calls are not generally acceptable way of socializing with women but very typical for blue collar construction workers, aren’t they?
What I am saying is that farmer’s and blue collar tradition lack certain element of refinement. Don’t you agree? For some people six pack and a football sunday will do for some it won’t..
In New York the line draws along the level of education. In Chicago because of its farmland / blue collar legacy and because its “intelligentsia” is very fresh (mostly first generation) it is not as simple… You can tell by going to yuppie bars in Chicago where you can find all the guys wearing team jerseys… Pretty strange but typical for Chicago.

Lost in Chicago Says:
November 21, 2008 at 7:53 pm edit

In the third sentence above I meant context not concept… )

chicagobluessucks Says:
November 24, 2008 at 3:01 pm edit

A site devoted to discussing how lame Chicago is? Count me in brothers why not! I was born in Oak Park IL (Chicago suburb) but my family “got wise” as my dad says, and we moved to San Diego in the mid 70s. I really dread going back to visit relatives. Not because they are annoying but because Chicago is always freezing! I thought big cities were supposed to have cool stuff to do? From what my relatives all tell me, they feel like prisoners for 8 months a year. Maybe it’s nicer in the summer, but I have summer in San Diego almost all year. And there is plenty to do. The housing is expensive here, but it’s worth it. Great food, great shopping…all that a big city has but without the gridlock and crime. Yeh for San Diego “America’s Great City”

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 25, 2008 at 2:26 am edit

Lost – I don’t think programmers or pilots would be considered blue collar, I’m pretty sure those are considered white collar jobs. Your local garbageman is blue collar. You think those terms are obsolete? Hmm. Not sure about that one. I think the jury’s still out.

I don’t know how construction workers are with the catcalls anymore – it’s been a long time since I’ve been around any kind of construction site. It was pretty common in my hey-day though, but I never minded it that much. I liked the ego stroke. ;) I didn’t think such behavior was still common anymore, what with women really coming down on them for it.

As for football and a 6-pack, sure, there are a lot of folks like that, not just here but across the country. I don’t know that I’d define that as unfriendly though. “Refined”? Perhaps not – their taste doesn’t run to brie and champagne, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t friendly or capable of dealing with social situations. At the same time, I think those types who are overly educated can often be seen as not coping well in social situations because they can become quite elitist and look down on others who aren’t as “educated” as they are.

I think friendliness is learned at home, whether blue or white collar, and I don’t think Chicago is a terribly friendly place. There are pockets, to be sure, and I’ve come across some real treasures – people who’ve brought a smile to my face – but in a general sense, I don’t think Chicago can lay claim to “friendly” anymore. If it ever could. I must confess though, there was a time when I thought Chicago was friendlier than San Francisco. Having traveled a lot more now, I’ve found Texas, Georgia, Virginia, and Wyoming to be friendly places I wouldn’t mind visiting again.

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 25, 2008 at 2:30 am edit

ChicagoBlues – Welcome! And your relatives are right, we ARE prisoners for 8 months of the year! LOL So how old were you when you left IL? Do you remember living here at all?

chicagobluessucks Says:
November 26, 2008 at 1:37 am edit

I was about 14 years old. All I remember about Oak Park/Chicago is that there was a Ernest Hemingway house there (birthplace I think?) I remember one of our grade school teachers telling us all about Hemingway and that he often snubbed his Chicago roots in private. I also remember nearly getting frost bitten one year because the heat was insufficient at our school and the teachers sent everyone home without making sure we had rides! This was in the 60s though and the teachers were all hippies and high I think . My mom was SO fuming mad! I don’t really have any fond memories of Chicago other than my family and the house we lived in. I’m not a racist, but from what I remember of Chicago, there were always alot of angry black kids everywhere we went. From what I hear, not much has changed.

DarcKnyt Says:
November 26, 2008 at 8:38 am edit

ChicagoBlues — You’re right, Hemingway did snub his Chicago roots, but not just in private. He called Oak Park a town of wide lawns and narrow minds. He didn’t make any bones about Chicago being a great area to be FROM.

And you’re right … not much HAS changed here since you left. But maybe President-elect Hopey McChange will have some influence on that for the first time since the fire burned the dump to the ground.

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 26, 2008 at 8:53 pm edit

ChicagoBlues – We must have traded places! I was 14 when I moved to IL, and you were 14 when you left. I don’t think they’ve fixed the heat yet either. ;)

chicagobluessucks Says:
November 27, 2008 at 1:18 am edit

I just got home and turned on the Weather Channel. It’s 30 degrees tonight in Chicago with a wind chill of 19????? It’s 61 here in Whale’s Vagina with a mild breeze! Also, to that schmo who claimed Chicago has the best food in the world- my date and I are going to a GREAT restaurant on Friday night called Whisknladle. Their culinary perfections beat ANYTHING I’ve ever had at any “5 star” Chicago restaurant. What can be had in Chicago can be had in San Diego or even San Francisco or LA. The main reason I like your site is because every time I meet someone from Chicago, they feel the need to act passive agressive towards me for being from California, like we are all from planet Pluto because we don’t worship Da Bears or whatever. They don’t know what they are really missing out here in the sun. The women are actually attractive, not pasty white and either 50 lbs overweight or anorexic like in Chicago. I’ve lived here most of my life and STILL love it. I really doubt in their heart of hearts they really love living in a dirty smelly and cold midwest version of Philidelphia.

chicagobluessucks Says:
November 27, 2008 at 2:14 am edit

I wanted to add one thing. The crime in Chicago..what is UP??? Chicago had 437 murders through November 26, 2008. Even more distressing is that the number of Americans murdered in Chicago is 48% higher than the number of American soldiers killed this year in Iraq. Deaths in the Iraqi war zone this year had fallen to a tragic 282…albeit substantially lower than prior years. New York and LA, both much larger cities, had far fewer slayings.

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 28, 2008 at 5:10 pm edit

ChicagoBlues – Yep, it’s cold here. Witch’s unmentionables cold. I got the same passive-aggressive thing too, being from CA and all. (SF Bay Area) I don’t get the crime thing either – it’s like no one cares how bad it is here, and for all of Chicago’s angst at not being #1 and better than NY at something, when you mention this statistic, they go ballistic. And instead of trying to do something about the crime problem, the tendency seems to be to shrug and claim it’s not that bad.

margartitaville69 Says:
November 30, 2008 at 4:15 pm edit

Open letter to Chicago:
There is more to life than pizza and bad baseball. Maybe if you offered more than 3 months (and that’s being generous) of nice weather, and maybe if your roadways were not so congested, your citizens would not be packing their suitcases and heading off to seek a better quality of life elsewhere. Maybe if your city wasn’t so grey and dirty, maybe if their was less crime and less graffiti and more affordable housing and better transportation. Maybe if the city taxes and cost of living were not through the roof! Maybe if the citizens actually voted their corrupt politicians out? Maybe if there not so many closet racists? Chicago, you are a waste of time and a waste of peopl’e sweat and energy. Wisconsin, the state above you that looks like a giant hand, should do the rest of the country a big favor–it should reach down and grab a hold of the southern united states and pull them right up over Illinois and Indiana….like pulling up a pair of pants.

DarcsFalcon Says:
November 30, 2008 at 10:39 pm edit

Margaritaville – Welcome! I very much like your “open letter”! You’ve summed up our sentiments quite nicely here. )

Thanks for stopping by, and I hope to see you again. )

  1. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 1, 2008 at 12:42 pm editchicagobluessucks,
    I thought about writing a “letter to Chicago” many times. Maybe we should take out a whole page ad in Chicago Tribune, then again why who would get it here?

    I am very close however to calling a local radio station and asking them to do a community service by repeating the following message thoughout the winter:




    Does anyone have a contact at any local radio station like WBBM? What happens on the roads toady is just terrible.

    Lost – All those things should have been taught in Driver’s Ed courses, and for the life of me, I can’t figure out how so many crazy, careless drivers managed to pass. Careless instructors perhaps?

  2. margartitaville69 Says:
    December 1, 2008 at 2:50 pm editI’m a little tired of the weather in general. Chicago really does not offer what it used to, so why stick around for this crap? Everywhere I turn is a chain restaurant or a chain store. Even Michigan Ave. shopping and eating is getting overrated and rediculous. Does it seem like since they jacked up the sales tax, the shopping scene is dying? All I heard for years from these big mouth politicians is that Chicago is recession proof. Well, downtown is filling up with more homeless than ever with this bad economy. The other night, a homeless man approached me in Subway sandwich shop and wanted money for a Subway meal. After I gave him a few bucks, he slithered out the door and I next saw him trying to sell “jewelry” to a young couple outside who looked really scared. I did not have these problems any of the six times I took trips to NY. But it seems like we are supposed to be used to incessant panhandling and drug pushing here in Chicago. If I want to be approached by unsavory characters on the street, I’l move to Memphis FCOL! This town has gone to heck in a hand basket and will surely embarrass itself during the Olympics if we get it. But where to move to..that is the question.

    Margaritaville – I’ve heard that “recession proof” line myself. How many believe it, do you think? Yeah, the highest taxes in the nation – that’s recession proofing. Sheesh! As for moving … I hear wonderful things about Houston. )

  3. franktown Says:
    December 1, 2008 at 6:35 pm editWhere to move to?????

    Many people on this board are unapologetic Houston lovers, so I suggest you ask them questions about that city (I’ve been there myself once for a couple of days, but I do not know about living there). Ness, doesn’t your sis live there???

    Frank – Indeed she does. D She was born and raised there, and has lived there her entire life, to this point.

  4. jovillian12 Says:
    December 2, 2008 at 2:37 pm editHouston is definately a lively and functioning city. The cost of living is dirt cheap and the people a TON friendlier than New York or Chicago. Chicago has to prove they are “friendly” and not just say it. If you don’t root for the Cubs or Bears you are treated like dirt normally.

    Jovillian – I love your name! I see it and think, “A jovial villain!” Welcome to our little corner here. Yes, there are a few Houston lovers floating around in the comments here. And I have experienced that “treated like dirt” you mention if you’re not a Bears or Cubs fan. I think it’s a law here or something. ;) Thanks for stopping by and I hope you come back again. )

  5. margartitaville69 Says:
    December 2, 2008 at 5:28 pm editjovill,
    Well, I live in Butt-cago and I will never treat you like dirt. I will however admit that there is a strong culture of snobbery which exists here. It’s mostly a male ego thing I think or a feeling of inferiority to NY or LA. Chicagoans are so subconciously tired of being thought of as being #3 in terms of big city stature that there have actually been articles in the papers here proclaiming that we are “finally on the map” because of Obama. It’s rediculous. Talk to any guy on the street two years ago and they would tell you “we’re better than NY or LA” and yet, now we are “on the map” I guess they mean as a global city. Well, someone must have had a pretty big inferiority complex if they thought Chicago wasn’t already “ON the map”
  6. LSDetroit Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 12:08 am editLost in Chicago:

    You have no idea what assholes Chicagoans really are

    -These people think it is perfectly acceptable behavior to park in the middle of a street, no matter how large or busy, while they slowly walk into a liquor store or run an errand. Just make sure you throw on your flashers.
    -Same goes for parking in front of parking garage entrances.
    -It is also a perfectly reasonable thing to calmly jaywalk, emphasis on walk, through fast moving traffic, causing everyone to slam on their brakes.
    -You’ve heard about double parking? How about driving in two lanes.
    -People routinely think it is cool to make half a left hand turn into a crowded lane, causing traffic on the other side to backup for miles.
    -This is the only place I have ever been where people do not understand what left and right hand turn lanes are. 90% of the people I’ve seen will not even bother to get over, especially when there is traffic coming in the other direction.
    -Stop lights are put up at the dumbest fucking locations. For instance, near where fullerton and grand merge, there is a light across fullerton that turns into a one lane, one way street. There is no left turn signal even. No one can pull out of this road, no one can enter.
    -Homeless people trying to squeegee your car at an intersection while the light is green.
    -The police do nothing to stop the panhandlers constantly harassing people downtown and at the intersections. I think this might be why all the natives are unfriendly assholes. Acting like other people don’t exist is the only way to get the homeless to leave you alone.
    -No one ever will accelerate to the low speed of 30mph when a light turns green, but they will get up there just as the next light turns red.

    My commute to work is roughly 10 miles, it usually takes me an hour and a half to get in. The route I take is not heavily trafficked. The problem is the stupid shit people here purposely do to fuck up the flow of traffic.

    If New York is the city that never sleeps, Chicago is the city that is always asleep. Physically and mentally. Fat. Lazy. Retarded. Obnoxious. Full of themselves. It is not a stereotype. And by the way, OPRAH SUCKS!

    The only good thing about this city is that there are a lot of transplants from other areas of the midwest. I would be out of here in a heartbeat if I wasn’t trapped at the moment by grad school. This place is a shithole and I’ve lived in Detroit.

    LSDetroit – Thanks for visiting and commenting here. ) Always nice to see new, friendly faces. Your comment reminds me somewhat of my husband – traffic has always bugged him, and it’s even worse around here. We’ve driven across the country and back and I can honestly say that IL drivers are awful! CA ones are pretty bad too, but IL! Good grief! I just don’t get it. It’s like no one took any kind of driving classes at all.

    Oprah sucks, ROFL!! No, no, tell us how you really feel!

    I laughed too, at your last line about having lived in Detroit and finding Chicago worse. There have been a few “Chicago defenders” who’ve braved this post, and one thing they always seem to say is that, “Well, it’s not as bad here as it is in Detroit!” As though that was some kind of justification. I am pleased to have it straight from a Detroit citizen that it is indeed worse here than there! D Hope to see you again. )

  7. DarcKnyt Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 12:22 am editI think it’s interesting how many people rail about how Chicago sucks ass (and it does) and yet are continuing to flock here to go to school. WTF? There ARE good schools elsewhere, people. Find one. Please. For your own good.

    What is it that’s bringing people here to go to school? I’m willing to bet the schools are exactly like the rest of Shitcago — more hype than fact.

    Opinions anyone?

  8. margartitaville69 Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 9:02 am editWell, my sis graduated from the highly esteemed University of Chicago and is now an evil lawyer…in Boston. She still feels like she could have gotten a better education elsewhere in the country for way less tuition. But people do not care about that, they hear the name University of Chicago and think you must be great if you graduated from there. My sister is a good lawyer don’t get me wrong, but she will tell you some horror stories about collegues who graduated from there and have no business calling themselves lawyers.
  9. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 9:24 am editLSD,

    These were exactly my thoughts when I moved to Chicago.
    I can’t believe people can drive “country style” in a big city like Chicago.
    I think the problem is that most of the people in Chicago are not mature enough to live in a big city. Big city style is to be respectfull of other people, remember that you are not the only one that is trying to make it to work/home. People in Chicago act like they do not care, they will block traffic making those damn

  10. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 9:28 am editleft turns that you described. It is unbelievable. The funny thing though I gave up pointing this out because the answer usually is “all big cities are like this” )
    I was driving in New York and it was much easier just becasue people use their imagination while driving…
    There is no other explanation for constant traffic jam in Chicago but stupidity of drivers making all the counterproductive moves and not understanding that big city driving is all about the FLOW and KEEPING UP with traffic… Chicago in many aspects is the dumbest place I have ever seen and I have seen a lot of Europe and the U.S.
  11. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 9:30 am editLSD,

    By the way, you wrote:
    “If New York is the city that never sleeps, Chicago is the city that is always asleep. Physically and mentally. Fat. Lazy. Retarded. Obnoxious. Full of themselves. It is not a stereotype. And by the way, OPRAH SUCKS!”

  12. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 9:32 am editLSD,

    By the way, you wrote:
    “If New York is the city that never sleeps, Chicago is the city that is always asleep. Physically and mentally. Fat. Lazy. Retarded. Obnoxious. Full of themselves. It is not a stereotype. And by the way, OPRAH SUCKS!”
    I have to check but I think I made almost the exact comment some time ago ) )
    Some time ago Hemingway wrote about Oak Park “the city of broad lawns and narrow minds” I think it appplies to all of the Chicagoland more than ever before…

  13. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 9:38 am editmargaritaville,

    I agree with your conclusion on Chicago inferiority complex. Some time ago I realized that Chicago’s omnipresent superiority complex is in fact a deep inferiority complex and Chicagoans are simply compensating for it…
    Very immature, isn’t it?

  14. DarcKnyt Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 10:39 am editMargaritaville:

    I figured; the school’s standing on a reputation it doesn’t deserve and can’t uphold. I think as a medical school it’s one of the best, but pales next to Johns Hopkins, and some of the Ivy league schools, and even Stanford. But I think it’s got a really great research hospital.

    So maybe Shitcago has one thing, after all. Well, two; UIC and the CSO. I’ve defended them elsewhere. )

  15. margartitaville69 Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 11:25 am editIt pains me to talk about University of Chicago Medical Center. Their cancer care center USED one of my ex co-workers daughters as a guinea pig for an experimental cancer treatment. The treatment actually progessed her cancer and killer her within two months. She was only nine. It still wrenches my heart and I know that it was just one case, but those people talked the parents into that treatment when other options were still available. There is apparently a lawsuit pending, but my friend will never see a dime.
  16. DarcsFalcon Says:
    December 3, 2008 at 9:37 pm editMargaritaville – That is an awful thing. I’m so sorry for your friend.
  17. johhnyd Says:
    December 5, 2008 at 10:26 am editChicago is a miserable waste of time. I got out of that mess in 2001 and never looked back! Considerably cheaper New York? Yes, but the job market is much more unstable in Chicago. Plus the city itself (govt.) sucks! I can think of 200 places better to live that Chicago based on weather alone! Very overrated, overcrowded, and very grey city with nearly 11 million people metro wide.

    Welcome to the club, JohnnyD! I envy you being able to get out of here – you are a rare one. It is really grey here, too. It’s like dingy, and I never understand the people who claim it’s so clean. It’s not!

  18. DarcKnyt Says:
    December 5, 2008 at 3:20 pm editJohhnyd — Welcome and congrats on achieving escape velocity! I wish my wife and I had been able to do it then, or even before. We had circumstances preventing it, and little did I know the collapse of our stability was so imminent then, but we’re always happy to hear about someone who made it.

    And I wonder if NY really IS more expensive when you start factoring in the highest taxes in the nation Shitcago imposes on its denizens … who continue to bend over and take it while they say the increasingly larger insertion isn’t painful.

    Just a thought, but I can’t say; haven’t been to NY and certainly won’t live there. Unless the choices are NY and Shitcago. Then I’d have to sit down, meditate and pray about what’s better.

  19. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 5, 2008 at 4:48 pm editDarcnyt,

    It is sad you have never been to New York. If not for any other reason then just to understand how far the Hollywood version of the city is from reality but also to understand how great an American city can be if it throws away parochial isolationism and pretensious megalomania…
    I wish I could give you a tour which would focus not on tourist attractions like Empire State Buidling, Statue of Liberty or Broadway but the unique boheme atmosphere and unbelievable nightlife that is not limited to drinking holes and restaurants…
    Yes, New York is very expensive, probably on par with San Fran (but considerably cheaper than London) but that’s not because of the taxes but because it is such a desirable place to live – big demand drives the prices of housing way up…

  20. DarcKnyt Says:
    December 5, 2008 at 8:31 pm editHey, Lost, if the opportunity ever comes up, I’ll be sure and give you a heads-up. ) Believe me, Falcon and I want nothing more than to fly the coop. Believe me.
  21. LSDetroit Says:
    December 6, 2008 at 6:09 pm editI am watching WGN right now and it is funny. These local broadcasters are talking up the big NHL “rivalry” between the blackhawks and the Red Wings. Apparently, they really took it to the wings before losing by 2 goals and being last in the division.

    Chicago sports = shit.

  22. franktown Says:
    December 7, 2008 at 6:29 pm editLost, I’m just curious, what brought you to Chicago? What do you do for a living?

    I’m am not trying to start something but am simply curious as to why you’re stuck in the city if you want to leave so bad.

  23. margartitaville69 Says:
    December 8, 2008 at 8:02 am editWell, I can’t speak for lost, but I am stuck in Chicago and cannot wait to get out. I work for allstate and make a pretty good buck. But so what? It’s 15 degrees here and it won’t heat up until the first or second week of JUNE. Yesterday we went to a funeral for one of my brother’s college buddies who was killed on the Edens when someone was following too close and caused his car to spin out. The people here drive like assholes, and the parking is unbelievably expensive and not enough places validate. The homeless persons and drug peddlers really add to the downtown experience though. I can’t wait to leave this dingey dump.

    I am so sorry for the loss of your brother’s friend. What an awful thing to have happen. Please give my condolences to the family.
  24. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 8, 2008 at 8:05 am editfrank,

    I am not going to share a lot of private info in a public forum but you can believe me when I say it was not exactly my choice… As a matter of fact I do not think anybody sane would deliberately choose Chicago as a place to live or raise children.
    Celebrities are a perfect indicator of attractiveness of any location as they have financial means to freely choose a place to live… Did you ever wonder why a third largest city in the US has only a handful of celebrities living here? I think most of the people in this forum know the answer but you and other “Chicago lovers” obviously can’t figure it out… Just face the fact folks: Chicago sucks and nobody WANTS to move here unless they live in even deeper sh…thole now. The rest of us is here because we do not have a choice.

    BTW. Telling someone that “if you do not like you can move elsewhere” is really redneck and parochial response to criticism.

  25. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 8, 2008 at 8:11 am editby the way…. If I did not have to be here I would not comment on this board. I would come to Chicago, listen to the praises of the uninspiring skyline and nonexsitant cultural life, talked to people prasing the Cubs and Sox look at those grey streets and angry, unhappy faces and leave this place certain that there must be something in the water here…
    Unfortunately, despite my hard efforts I still have to be here and secretely wish this city was little more civilized, refined and inhabitable.
  26. margartitaville69 Says:
    December 8, 2008 at 12:27 pm editOh, but the 60 people (who lived in the Chicago suburbs all their life by the way) who were surveyed said they love Chicago and will never move! So we are supposed to think there is not FAR better out there? Pffft. What a joke. And you are right Lost, there are only a few celebrities who actually choose to live here, and I hate them all- Jerry Springer, Oprah, that annoying US cellular chick. Oprah will be moving soon to DC to follow Barack and anyone who was born here and gets famous, leaves. The biggest problem I have with this place is the denial everyone is in. Do people actually think they went into the ghettos of Chicago to survey people? no. And there is ghetto to the south, north, and west of Chicago now. But the lakefront is nice. How about another Starbucks or chain restaurant, maybe another strip mall to keep us all happy? Pffft.

    That “US Cellular chick” is Joan Cusack – born and raised here, along with her brother John and a few other siblings. I think their father was some kind of big deal in theater or politics or something.

  27. franktown Says:
    December 8, 2008 at 12:33 pm editLost, I really think you need to have more experiences with more people. I really don’t appreciate some of the words you use to associate with Midwesterners (”redneck”). It has nothing to do with your criticism of Chicago, I just don’t think I, or Ness for that matter, really appreciate it, especially some of the things you have said in the past about blue collar people.

    I’m sorry you think nobody wants to move here. In Indiana and other Midwestern schools, many people move to Chicago by choice. They love it there. All people I know in Chicago love it, and I never see “angry faces” you talk about.

    I respect Ness a lot because she seems to be keeping her head up despite her misfortunes of living in the area, however, you seem so damn dark and depressed it’s depressing reading some of your messages, whether or not I agree with them. Based on your words, I really suggest asking your boss or whoever runs your job to transfer you after your lease ends. Then you can go back to Manhattan and be happy again being back in the northeast, where you seem to be most at home in.

    I don’t want such a downer living in my city, lol.

  28. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 8, 2008 at 2:55 pm editFrank,

    Get a life. Of course your friends from Indiana, Nebraska and Idaho love it in Chicago. Read my post again… )
    By the way, since when is Chicago your city? Do you actually live, work and/or pay taxes in Chicago? I do and that gives me the right to have my an opinion about this place.

  29. LSDetroit Says:
    December 8, 2008 at 4:41 pm edit“And did you know, it’s offensive to put ketchup on a Chicago Style hot dog? I kid you not: “It is taboo to put ketchup on a Chicago hot dog; there are actually some hot dog shops and stands that will refuse to provide service if the customer makes the request.” They aren’t kidding – I’ve been to such places. “We don’ got no catch up heeah. You ain’t from Shikahga, air ya?” No. No I’m not.”

    Hahahaha.. I get this reaction all the time when I ask for ketchup for my fries, because I might try to sneak it on there. Why even sell french fries if there are no condiments? The whole thing is retarded. Who cares what someone else puts on a hotdog? Chicagoans get seriously pissed off over such trivial shit.

    LMAO! I know! They act like you want to break the law or something just to put ketchup on a silly hot dog! My husband has a story about being a new transplant to Chicago, and having heard so much about “Chicago hot dogs” he went to the recommended place to get one. When he was handed his hot dog, he handed it back to the vendor and said, “I’m sorry, you must have misunderstood my order – this is a salad on a bun – I ordered a hot dog.” Needless to say the vendor was pissed and refused to refund his money. That was also the last time my husband ordered a Chicago style hot dog.

  30. christel runyan Says:
    December 9, 2008 at 11:39 am editO one more thing… I dubbed this phrase… “you know you’re in Illinois because the word ILL is in it!LOL!…better yet how about ILLANNOY!! LOL


  31. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 9, 2008 at 12:58 pm editI am first to report that the state of Illinois reached a new low today with its governor being in federal custody. Pretty funny when you read the indicement, seems like the guy was running a store selling favors, contracts, bill and posts on a large scale. As far as I know this is the second time in a row after Ryan that the Illinois governor is being prosecuted for corruption i.e. corruption is so widespread and rampant that the feds can gather enough evidence to prosecute on corruption charges instead of the usual campaign contribution law violation…
    Wow, I remember when I fist moved here and I was told that Illinois is so special because unlike these folks in La-La-Land or New York, people in Illinois are mostly hard working, honest and modest individuals. After three years in Chicago I contend that most of the people here do not work hard but create smoke screens, people lie through their teeth with no remorse and you have to have armed guards in the malls (HIP) because of theft problem… Not much hard work or honesty and on top of this tIllinois is probably the most corrupt state in the nation… When is going to be Daley’s turn?

    “When is going to be Daley’s turn?” Not soon enough!! I have a post on this going up on my political blog tomorrow morning. Blago is actually the 4th IL Gov. since 1960 to be indicted.

  32. franktown Says:
    December 9, 2008 at 1:40 pm editRedneck means you’re neck is red from all of the hard work you’ve been doing. Most people in Illinois and Chicago are VERY hard working, but like Gotham, are victims of the corrupt city government. Okay, I’ll give you that. Illinois is certainly one of the most corrupt in the union. And Chicago IS Gotham City. But, don’t even get me started with New York. I seem to remember a certain governor in a state having sex with a woman much younger than him when he was already married and paying her for it….I also remember the govenor ordered his political oponents to be stalked by agents and he spent tons of federal money on picking up those women he wanted to have sex with. Ohhh… where did that happen????
  33. franktown Says:
    December 9, 2008 at 1:41 pm editI agree with you Lost about Daley though, that jackass needs to go pronto!!!!

    But Al Capone’s legacy is FAR from over, and until the citizens of Chicago stand up and demand change from the corruption, it will continue.

  34. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 9, 2008 at 5:18 pm editfrank,

    What is your point? You do not even live in Chicago you never lived in New York but you pass some trivia hoping it will be mistaken for knowledge or experience. Why?
    Anyways, New York is the Empire State and even comparing governors of NY and IL you have to notice that New York was blessed with more than a fare share of great politicians like Van Buren, Grover Cleveland, both Roosevelts and Rockefeller to name these that went on to become (vice-) presidents later on. Illinois had none of these, maybe with an exception of the last two governors who made it into history books by allowing and taking part in widespread corruption schemes… Are you proud already?
    You are talking about governors having sex with younger women.. Well, I would rather focus on Illinois’ political machine that brings to the office one criminal after another and is full of nepotism, political dynasties and porkbarrelling all in the expense of the taxpayer. Why is everyone in Chicago so shocked right now? As I recall papers have been always printing stories about Blago’s corruption scandals but this is Chicago and Illinois: nobody cares… Sheeps. You are saying people of Illinois are victims of crooked politicans but do you know how many times I pointed out that unbelievable fact that Chicago does not have term-limits for most public posts or the fact that we pay the highest taxes in the nation? (I live here, too) The usuall response however was “all cities are like this” or “what can you do about it?” People in Chicago and llinois are spineless, mindless schmucks incapable of independent thinking and unable to take any action. “Chicago-tough”? Now I think it means “Chicago stupid”.

    To summarize: there is no dumber place in the US than Illinois, the state and its major city proves this point every day. Just think about it, to elect one deeply corrupt governor is unfortunate but two in a row can only mean one thing: people of Illinois are so dumb that no respectable person would enter a race or make it to the top here… Keep on electing crooks and paying highest taxes in the nation. Good luck to you Chicago!

    PS. Chicago envies New York so much it would even steal its nicknames if it could… ) Gotham City refers to New York and New York only. Check Wikipedia or early Batman comic book.

  35. franktown Says:
    December 9, 2008 at 5:50 pm editDoesn’t it suck Lost that the biggest movie of the century wasn’t filmed in New York? What was Nolan thinking??? God!! Everything has to happen in New York damnit!! Everything!!!

    Obama, the bastard, should have come from New York!

  36. J.R. Says:
    December 9, 2008 at 11:31 pm editTimes like these make me wish I didn’t delete my blog because I want to bash Blago. But then again, I don’t live in Illinois, so big flying f- you to Illinois Governor Blago.

    “To summarize: there is no dumber place in the US than Illinois, the state and its major city proves this point every day. Just think about it, to elect one deeply corrupt governor is unfortunate but two in a row can only mean one thing: people of Illinois are so dumb that no respectable person would enter a race or make it to the top here… Keep on electing crooks and paying highest taxes in the nation. Good luck to you Chicago!?

    Lost— this is what I try to tell EVERYONE! There is no dumber place than Chicago!

    Obama people–”CHANGE?” haha dumbasses change DOES NOT come through Illinois polticians. A scandal before Obama begins his Presidency, the Governor selling Obama’s Senate seat to the highest bidder!

    “This shit is fucking golden” -Blago

    Yes it is Blago. He isn’t smart. He is just so fucking dumb, he acts like an immature high schooler picking on his. classmates.

    So in summary:

    I deleted my blog mainly because I don’t want to waste my time talking about how fucking dumb Illinois is (mainly just Chicago) and especially the sheeple there that live in denial. Enough said.

    Cheers to everyone here who understands what I try to articulate.

    I’ve been thinking about you all day, knowing you were half wishing you could post about this. I’m glad you came by! I’ve missed you!

  37. franktown Says:
    December 9, 2008 at 11:51 pm editThank god you came back!! It’s been to long!!!

    Who gives a shit about Chicago, bring your blog back so we can argue again!!!

    Aww!! D

  38. LSDetroit Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 6:23 am editFrank,

    Gotham City is supposed to be a filthy, crime-ridden shithole, consumed with corruption at all levels of society.

    It makes sense that Nolan chose Chicago over New York, it is not exactly a compliment.

  39. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 9:36 am editJ.R.

    We all knew that long time ago. Illinois and Chicago are dumber than dumb. In most states being this dumb is simply illegal. There was a political commentator from Chicago who on CNN last night who mentioned that everyone in Illinois and Chicago knows that the governor, mayors, senators, alderman are crooked. There is no guesswork, they go to jail one after another but what was really shocking is when he said that in Illinois and Chicago people are so used to the govermnet being crooked that people became complacent and even proud about Chicago way of doing politics. Yes, people are being robbed of their tax money but they assume this is normal!
    You can’t get any dumber than this but latets developments made Illinois a laughinstock for the entire nation. If this was made public before the election Obama would never get the vote as being tainted by being a part of Chicago political machine…

  40. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 9:54 am editfrank,

    Batman as the biggest movie of the century? That would be really sad….
    Anyways, who cares where Batman was filmed. New York does not need another movie to make it great, it is already the greates city in the world based on its cultural, economical or political influence over the rest of the world including Indiana…
    Just listen to the beginning of Dave Letterman show or check Wikipedia for info.

    PS. Obama? Who cares where he is from. Four of NY governors have become US presidents and NYC mayors like Gulliani or Bloomberg are nationally recognized political figures… Right now Illinois is the laughinstock of the nation and “Chicago politics” is synonymous with corruption and arrogance and it would take a lot to change that perception… Are you proud, Frank?

  41. J.R. Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 11:15 am editThanks Falcon and everyone (even Franktown)

    I’ve been much happier not having a blog to piss me off with all of the dumb things that go on in the world.

    There comes a point where even I just become apathetic. Then when Thanksgiving rolls around everyone wonders why I bash Chicago.

    Oh well, got a “date” with the shining this month, we’ll see how that goes.

  42. margartitaville69 Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 11:41 am editBatman being filmed here makes Chicago great?? That’s laughable. Just another example of how my fellow Chicagoans have some sort of inferiority complex with New York. Batman makes Chicago great? wow. Over 6,000 movies have been filmed in New York/LA. Get over it Chicago. You are not, nor will ever be on the level of LA, New york, or even CANADA as far as film backdrops. While I am at it, how embarrassing is this Blago scandal?? I cannot believe David Axlerod when he backpeddles and says Obama’s people and Blago’s people did not talk after all. Even if Obama is able to sqeak out of this entanglement he gave everyone an opening to dig, due to his dealings with Rezko and his support of Daily and Blagojevich. The thing that STUNS me is that the people of this dump continue to vote these machinists into office.
  43. franktown Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 12:03 pm editI never said Batman makes Chicago better, I’m just saying Chicago’s Gotham City. Dark, gritty, crowded, corrupt, crime ridden, but it has tons of positives on top of that. Vibrant, fantastic architecture, homey, friendly, and just plain out fun.

    And yes, I have lived here for at least half a year, paid the taxes, and now the city long enough (My parents have lived in Skokie since ‘03) to know the city well.

  44. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 1:06 pm editfrank,
    Yes, Chicago is Gotham City and Big Apple too.
    That’s pathetic when you can’t even come up with a decent nickname for your city )

    Frank so you lived in Chicago for six months and your parents live in Skokie. Wow, what a great Chicago experience. Why don’t you lleave talking about Chicago to people who spent more time here and more imprtantly lived in other places so they have some point of reference. OK?

  45. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 1:23 pm editmargartitaville69

    Yup. I can smell trouble in paradise i.e. Chicago political machine. Obviously Chicago FEDs would not arrest Blago before the election as to not taint Obama with another hometown political scandal especially after the damage done by Rezko, but why right now???
    Was Blago in trouble with Obama camp for simply refusing to appointing the RIGHT person or is it a part of larger plan to make room for other players? Who directly benefits from removing Blago from the office?
    What’s the plan here? I guess we will know shortly ) This is Chicago, nobody cares for subtle cover up in this town.

  46. margartitaville69 Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 1:27 pm editfrank, with all due respect to you and your folks, I have lived here for HUNDREDS of months, not six. And the fun has been wearing thin for years. Chicago architecture is pretty bland by New York standards. If you have taken the architectural tour of the Chicago River, maybe you can gain some insight into how outsiders view the architecture. Many of the most famous buildings are/were regarded as ugly and yes, even tacky. There are a few beautiful buldings in Chicago. But I can honestly say with no Chicago bias here, that New York and even London have much more “fantastic” examples of architecture. As far as friendly???? Where do YOU live??? There is more petty passive aggressive crap in this city than any other BY FAR. I fail to see how we are homey when there are so many crooks thugs walking around and causing problems. And those are just the politicians!!! Ha!
  47. franktown Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 2:31 pm editAnd I smell New York bias from thousands of miles away.

    Why cant New Yorkers ever just admit that another city is great? Everytime I mention how fun another city is to many New Yorkers at school (and I’m only talking about the ones at IU) I get the “but it’s a fake New York” or “who cares, it’s not New York” attitude. It’s like they refuse to recognize a city’s greatness outside of their own. Of course, many New Yorkers at school also LOVE Chicago, but you call Chicagoans insecure? Look in the mirror (I’m only talking to Lost as of right now or to all the people who constantly compare Chicago to New York)

    Is it THAT threatening to compliment another city that’s different than yours? I freely compliment many other cities, including New York, not caring what it makes Chicago look like. Lost, I’d really like to hear what you think of other cities other than New York and Chicago.

  48. realr Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 3:24 pm editI spent a week in NYC a few weeks ago. I got called out there for a job interview for one of the biggest firms in the country. There were 50 candidates and it was narrowed to two, me and another.
    My current firm based out of Chicago is basically hurting, not Chicago’s fault really, it is (was) a great firm to work for, it is this firm was taken over by another firm, and since Chicago’s operating costs (Loop office space isn’t exactly cheap), this other firm based in another state (no, not NY) is shutting down a lot of satellite offices and eventually Chicago too, mine current one in this area of California included is being phased out. So, I found a budget deal at one of those travel websites, and the thing is, the flight portion was fine, the hotel portion was so screwed up (the site screwed it up really bad), that they transferred me and comped me the price difference for a week stay (I only had to pay what I supposed to be paying for a hotel in Queens) in a hotel right off of Central Park.
    I am not into sightseeing and this was a business trip anyway, but I tried to check out as much as I could. I had to be at this firm quite a bit, interviewing, testing, meeting more managers, etc. I rode the subway everywhere, no issues. The HR person told me NYers will be more than happy to answer any questions you have regarding directions,etc. Anyway, the few questions I had (do I take the E uptown or downtown to get to 9th Av, etc.) I had no issues with anyone. I used the web but sometimes Google maps aren’t always correct. Every person I walked up to on the MTA platforms (mostly non city employees) when I was unsure of what direction train I was supposed to take, or when I was on the street and I noticed I was walking in the wrong direction, were more than helpful, not one was rude or acted like I was bothering them. One guy after I stopped him to ask a question, I had noticed he had a Bluetooth headset in his ear and was talking, I said “Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t see that, and I was about to ask someone else, but he stopped and said “no problem, and said “no you are going in the wrong direction to get to blank and blank you turn around walk one block, etc”. I knew I would love this city, Paris and SF and on my great city list also, so I knew this wouldn’t disappoint. I had spent more time here than before (when I was a kid basically). I checked out apts. just in case the job went my way (not in Manhattan obviously, can’t afford that) in a good area of Queens, the apts are $1000+, but my pay rate would match this, and besides like the old saying goes you get what you pay for.
    I remember after one grueling day of testing, I had such a headache and was so tired, I went back to my hotel and just fell asleep. I woke up at about 10pm, and I was starving. I remember going outside to grab a bite to eat. It was now maybe 10:30pm-11:00pm on a weekday, and I remember walking out on Columbus Circle and it was just so alive, I always loved this city, but experiencing it for a week and being an adult and not a kid, this was great. I was ready to move here permanently without hesitation. The day before I left I was told the other guy is a NY local, and although they hadn’t made their decision, I knew I was out. Everyone else up until then were not local, this last guy and I were the last out of all of them, but I knew he got it. Regardless if I ate the relocation expense I knew I was out. (my sister went through this also in San Francisco, and she isn’t from there, but from a central part of the same state) . I fly back, and after the holiday they went with the local person. I edged out 49 out of 50, at least I know I can get a good job in one of the largest markets in the world, but without a firm offer and the apt. prices to high to risk just moving there, although I could find a job eventually, I have to let NY go for now. I was glad at least, I got the chance to experience it in depth, I loved it.
    Anyway, here in this part of California is not that great, I am not in LA or SF, but the central part in the Sacramento valley. I know everyone hates Chicago, and I know it is not nirvana, but in all honesty, Chicago looks like NY compared to it here. I chose this place to relocate as I had (have) a family emergency going on. My last surviving parent is dying (mother), and I came here to support my sister who has been taking the burden since I was 2000 miles away in Chicago. At this stage, my mother is not even coherent anymore, she came to the point she didn’t recognize anyone, now she isn’t even awake 98% of the time.
    She is about 30 miles from here, and I do not have a car (public transportation is non-existent here) , so I rented every once in awhile, but that gets expensive. I have been checking out jobs here, but that is basically a joke, I went to few backwater firms here (the Sacramento valley is bad, ask any California native, why my sister chose to live here—cost? But man, I question her reasoning), all say I am overqualified, or they pay nothing and offer no benefits.
    I have since gotten a call back at my firm in Chicago but also two other firms in the Loop want to bring me out for an interview, and hire me. I am thinking of just flying out in a week or two as these firms say they need someone quickly. My firm is hurting; I would rather go with a more stable firm. I would also sign a lease on an apt. and come back, as I have no other choice. I already lost my health insurance at this dying firm, not a good thing to have no health insurance in this country.
    Here was the topper, I have driven for ages in Chicago and never had an accident or even came close to one while driving in Chicago streets or expressways, and I have seen asshole drivers in Chicago, sure, but everyone here drives like assholes. I remember driving on the expressway (freeway) here and no one uses directionals, no one. I remember when I first got here, after renting a car and driving back after seeing my mother, we were going about 60 (speed limit is 65 here), then all of a sudden we starting slowing considerably, this ass in front me starting hitting his breaks occasionally. I dropped back as this guy didn’t seem right, all of a sudden he hits his breaks fully, I hit mine (as I involuntary reaction, I just yelled you moth***ker), I thought for sure I was about to hit him, but I missed him by inches.
    I have seen people here miss the exit ramp (and this happens all the time) , and just go from one end of a four lane highway without any directionals, and jump to the other side of the freeway and drive over the separator between the exit ramp and the freeway to get onto the exit ramp. To show I am fair, I said to my sister, if you pull that shit and play that game in Chicago (especially in my friend’s Bridgeport neighborhood) you are going to get your ass kicked and rightfully so. I am sorry, but regardless of bad drivers in Chicago, they in no way compare to the assholes here, Chicagoans DO NOT under any circumstances drive this bad.
    Well, I thought if I keep driving here, someone is going to hit me, and that is exactly what happened, I was driving and came to an intersection and actually used the Stop sign and made a full stop, wow, someone in the Sacramento valley actually obeyed the stop sign. Anyway, it was clear, and guy hits me on the drivers side and throws this rental onto the other side of the street. He wasn’t hurt, I was.
    I got out of the car which was totaled, and walked to him and my ribs feel like they are caved in, and I was considerate enough to ask if he was ok, he said he was. Then mumbled about his 12 year old piece of shit Hyundai, he could care less what happened to the car or me. I do not believe Chicagoans would act this way, I don’t. I refused treatment when the cop asked me , as I have no health insurance, this is now snaking its way through the insurance companies. This also is what pushed me to accept the NY interview, I wanted to visit NY as an adult, and there is no way after that I wanted to die without seeing it. This happens with no health insurance too, great, regardless if it is NY or Chicago; I have to leave this place.
    San Francisco is only 200 miles away, but it is too expensive to live there, unless I chose the East Bay, but at this point, I have offers coming out of Chicago, I really do not think I can afford to pass them by, and waste away here when this job ends, and I have no health insurance.
    BTW, I finally found a place where people are worse manner wise it is this area of California hands down no doubts. I talked to my family, and they all agreed I cannot do anymore for my mother, I did all I can do. They told me to go if I need to.
    I paid a heavy price here, a really heavy price, but I did what I had to do, you do not throw a blood relative away like this. That was my only car accident, never had one before, I had to come to the central part of California so someone can hit me, but regardless, I did what I had to do, I have no regrets over it.
    Barring any significant change, a job offer here (that’s a laugh) or San Francisco, I don’t see how I can pass by a legitimate offer for a large firm coming out of Chicago.
    NYC came so close, at least I saw it, but you do what you got to do. I have been on my own for 20yrs, I cannot stay here if I am being offered a job with full benefits back in Chicago.

    I am so sorry to hear about your mother, R. This has been a very difficult time for you, and you have done what you had to do. And you certainly don’t need to justify moving back to Chicago if that’s what you have to do. That’s sort of what happened to my husband and me, we tried to leave but circumstances beyond our control forced us back here. It’s rather like a black hole to us for that reason.

    I know how those CA drivers can be! I don’t know that I’d say they’re worse than Chicago drivers, but for sure they are not any better. I was really appalled when I was out in CA a few years ago, at how bad they are. Rude, too, not just while driving but walking around stores and in restaurants, too.

    At least you got the chance to see NY as an adult, like you’ve always wanted, so that’s a plus. Perhaps one of these days another opportunity will come up and you’ll be the one chosen for the job. In the meantime, you can only play the hand you’re dealt and do the best you can, no matter where it is. We’ll be rooting for you, no matter where you end up. It’s good to see you here again though! I’ve been thinking about you, hoping you were having a nice holiday season out in CA. I wish the circumstances were better for you, what with your job situation and your family situation. I’ll keep you in my prayers that things improve for you and yours. Stay in touch, okay?

  49. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 10:14 pm editrealr, sorry to hear about your mother.
  50. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 11, 2008 at 9:19 am editrealr,

    Sorry to hear about your mother. I am glad though that you were able to experience New York by yourself and confront the myth with reality. I know Hollywood worked hard to convince people it is bad. Then again, if it was so bad how come so many people (including those reponsible for those movies) live there )
    I am sorry to hear you will be stuck here in Chicago like the rest of us it just proves that there is no escape from this mental institution )

  51. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 11, 2008 at 9:56 am editfranktown Says:
    December 10, 2008 at 2:31 pm
    “Why cant New Yorkers ever just admit that another city is great? Everytime I mention how fun another city is to many New Yorkers at school (and I’m only talking about the ones at IU) I get the “but it’s a fake New York” or “who cares, it’s not New York” attitude. ”

    As usual you got it all wrong: New Yorkers do admit other paces are great. Paris is great. London is cool. San Fran simply beautiful. Show us greatness and we will recognize it. But we are not going to be awed by a few skyscrapers with a rusty bridge in the middle (the Loop) and say Chicago is beautiful… As far as what I think about other cities, probably the same as most New Yorkers do: some citties are better some worse but we are here in New York paying some of the most expensive rents in the country because there is no other city like this one. There is no other city offering Broadway, endless line of art galleries and happenings plus a job market like no other in the world.
    To help you digest this info, imagine for a moment that you are a Yankee fan with season tickets and someone tries to tell you about their local team being so great. Would you say, “oh yeah, those Cubs/Sox/Cardinals/Brewers are great” with a straight face? )
    Keep in mind that New York is a very orignal, trendsetting place. This is where the rich and famous live and play and set the tone for the rest of us. This is where America comes to experience great theater and artists come to become famous. Now think of that the next time you tell someone about your “fun city” because for a New Yorker the same city may be just another bland and cheesy country experience.

  52. franktown Says:
    December 11, 2008 at 4:19 pm editI don’t need to live in a place where I know famous people live. Seriously, rich and famous people CAN kiss my ass!! Well, if they think they’re better than me just because they have more money than I do. Okay, people go to NYC to get famous… but does it ever happen? New York and Los Angeles are not the city of dreams! Sorry to break it to you dude, but you gotta know people in order to make money! That’s what the business in New York, LA, and even Chicago are about…. getting yourself ahead by networking. Are you seriously recommending to people that you meet that they should pack up their belongings, quit their jobs, and simply go to NYC in hopes of being famous??? They’re in for a rude awakening!

    Well, I’m an artsy or hippie type like you seem to be Lost (with all your theatre and fancie schmancy loving bullshit), but I do agree New York is the place to be if your absolutely obsessed with theatre and art. Or gay and a hassidic Jew.

  53. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 12, 2008 at 1:26 pm editfrank,

    Don’t they teach in Indiana that New York metro is the largest business market in the nation? Haven’t you heard that no other city has more large corporations headquartered than New York? New York is a place to be if you want to make an impact, no matter how much networking you do some other places simply do not offer those opportunities. Most American advertising agencies, big TV stations and financial institutions are headquartered in New York. There is no city with a larger percentage of people employed by multinational corporations than New York. You want your chance in those fields – you come to New York.
    Frank, like I said before, do some reading before you open your mouth because most of what you say simply proves that you are clueless.

  54. northlakejoeyz Says:
    December 12, 2008 at 4:14 pm editfranktown-

    you said
    ‘Well, if they think they’re better than me just because they have more money than I do’

    don’t you see how hypocritical and small minded that statement is? You earlier posted that Chicago is probably the best U.S. city– a “world class” place with “tons to do”, lots of shopping and nice big lawns, etc… In other words, it is your opinion, and your imagination, that other cities are somehow beneath Chicago?
    So you think Chicago is better than others because it “has more”, yet you say others can kiss your ASS if they think they are better for having more?? Bud, you must not have lived here long. I liked living in Chicago too, but I’m not ready to call it the greatest city in the world, and I’ve lived here in Northlake for 30 years. When my daughter moves to San Diego, I’m leaving my wife here and moving in with them. This place sucks the life and money out of everyone.

    Welcome to the club, JoeyZ. ) Always nice to see a new face here.

  55. realr Says:
    December 12, 2008 at 6:12 pm editThanks everyone, hopefully things get better. Right now from my vantage point, I just can’t see it. I know this is probably being obscured right now, but it isn’t exactly rosy right now.

    Thanks again.

  56. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 12, 2008 at 8:45 pm editlost in chicago..
    i think you should go to a blog that spouts “why New york Rocks” rhetoric, geez. not that i agree with franktown (chcago does suck), but your incesassant “New York is the best in blah blah blah and New York has blah blah blah, is getting a bit annoying.
  57. DarcsFalcon Says:
    December 12, 2008 at 8:58 pm editOkay, change of subject here! I have a question!

    I’ve been thinking about the possibility of starting a forum for us – a real forum. I’ve found a site that hosts, but I haven’t been sure if anyone here is interested in doing something like that.

    Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas? I’d really appreciate your feedback. Thanks! )

  58. franktown Says:
    December 12, 2008 at 10:43 pm editnorthlakejoez,

    Hello, and welcome to the board! ) Thank you for your response, but I want to remind you that you need to have read my other responses and posts before making the statements that you made. For instance, I specifically stated that New York City has more of everything than Chicago does. I also stated in my other posts how much I love other midwestern cities and never stated Chicago was “better” than New York (you obviously came to that conclusion because you only read that one post of mine).

    I don’t think any cities are beneath Chicago. In fact, I specifically stated New York is better than Chicago because it has more. But that doesn’t mean, in my opinion, that Chicago sucks. It still has tons to do and lots to see. By simply complementing Chicago doesn’t mean you are insulting other cities, right? Despite my love for East Coast cities, I still stand by my statement by saying that the rich people out there who come out to the Midwest because they’re to dumb to go to a school in their own state can kiss my ass. I don’t think I’m better than them, I just don’t want to be around people like Lost that think I’m a “hick, farmboy”.

    P.S. Ness— Yess!! I’m all for it! )

    Sorry hon, don’t know why you got stuck in moderation. WP seems to be doing that a lot lately.

  59. franktown Says:
    December 12, 2008 at 10:45 pm editnorthlake,

    Come to my blog and read my posts. You’d be surprised )

  60. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 12, 2008 at 11:43 pm edita forum that discusses what exactly?

    Basically this, but in forum form, so people can respond directly to one another’s comments and things like that, start specific topics, etc. I was wondering if it would encourage more exchange, more venting if that’s what people wanted to do. This has essentially become a “safe house” where we who aren’t that fond of Chicago can come talk about it, spew, if you will. If this was in an actual forum, would people feel as comfortable?

  61. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 13, 2008 at 11:40 am editvacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 12, 2008 at 8:45 pm
    “lost in chicago..
    i think you should go to a blog that spouts “why New york Rocks” rhetoric, geez. not that i agree with franktown (chcago does suck), but your incesassant “New York is the best in blah blah blah and New York has blah blah blah, is getting a bit annoying.”

    You see, it is not like I walk the streets of Chicago comparing everything to New York. I actually stopped doing that about two years ago but i still bring New York up because many times when I mentioned what I do not like about Chicago I was told that “all big cities are like this” or a similar nonsence. New York serves merely as point of reference and I am really glad I have one, otherwise I could just concede that “Chicago has its problems but it is the best a big city can be”. The biggest problem is that most Chicagoans do not really know how other big cities are and simply assume that Chicago way is the only way. Is this helping?

  62. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 13, 2008 at 11:41 am editdarcs,


  63. DarcsFalcon Says:
    December 13, 2008 at 6:50 pm editYay! I’ll work on it over the weekend then. I still want it to be private – we don’t need no stinkin’ pro-Chicago jerks in there either, the kind who do the drive-by “You people suck!” comments that I delete. We do want a classy joint, right? Should I have people email me for info so I don’t have to post a link?
  64. franktown Says:
    December 13, 2008 at 11:04 pm editI have to get this out…..,

    I HATE FINALS!!!!!! :<

    Sorry hon. I hope you feel better now, having gotten that off your chest. ) Just be sure to ace them all.

  65. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 14, 2008 at 9:08 am editlost in chicago says:
    You see, it is not like I walk the streets of Chicago comparing everything to New York. I actually stopped doing that about two years ago but i still bring New York up because many times when I mentioned what I do not like about Chicago I was told that “all big cities are like this” or a similar nonsence. New York serves merely as point of reference and I am really glad I have one, otherwise I could just concede that “Chicago has its problems but it is the best a big city can be”. The biggest problem is that most Chicagoans do not really know how other big cities are and simply assume that Chicago way is the only way. Is this helping?

    i guess.. could you use other cities as a point of reference in the future? that’s if you’ve lived or visited them of course. lol : )
    BTW, what part of new york did you reside in when you were there?

  66. DarcsFalcon Says:
    December 14, 2008 at 7:05 pm editOkay! The forum is basically up and running now! Woo! So, since it’s going to be a private kind of place, I don’t want to put the link right out in public here. Email me at darcsfalcon at gmail to get the link, so you can sign up and join in. ) Can’t wait to see you there!
  67. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 14, 2008 at 7:55 pm editchiNY
    So what should I use then? Chicago is the third largest city in the US so the only points of reference could either be NY or LA. My last NY location was Williamsburg (Bedford)
  68. northlakejoeyz Says:
    December 14, 2008 at 11:53 pm edit‘i guess.. could you use other cities as a point of reference in the future? that’s if you’ve lived or visited them of course’

    It kind of sounds like you have a little inferiority about Chicago as compared to NY. As a long time Chicagoan, I have to admit that I often catch my fellow Chicagoans putting down other midwest cities that are smaller. They argue that Chicago has alot more to offer, which it does. But just like New York, it also offers alot of headaches. I think some of the smaller metro areas of our country have a distinct advantage as far as being more livable. Chicago is becoming unlivable for many. I know many here who were very surprised to see the number of people who left Cook County in recent years. It has become the highest taxed county in the United States. And if the traffic flowed better here or the weather were better, I guess maybe we’d have it over New York, but it doesn’t have either. And New York just has too much to offer that Chicago doesnt, including lower crime and just plain more to do.

  69. J.R. Says:
    December 15, 2008 at 2:05 am editFrankie,

    I’d head for the hills while you can. You don’t want to be in Chicago–its an ugly city. The people are ugly-mentally and physically if you stay there and become fat, the weather is ugly, the atitudes are ugly, the politics are ugly.

    Above all the denial is ugly.

    “Wide lawns and narrow minds” Hemingway on Oak Park…thats if you are lucky

    “Narrow Lawns and narrow minds.”

    I’ve known many people who lived in worked in the city and suburbs…the people will fuck you over and laugh like Blago and George Ryan–in jail.

    My grandpa was fucked over when he worked for the city.

    My dad is fucked over by scumbags there all the time (he won’t live in Cook).

    I was fucked over and fired and had my roomate ditch me in the same day. The vice-president of a company was threatening me and I told her to fuck off–lost my job, lost my mind from dealing with those greasy slimball Northern Illinoians.

    The people are cock bags. I have no pity for any of them. No sense in complaing for me anymore, just giving you advice Frankie.

    No one questions why I won’t come back anymore.

  70. christel runyan Says:
    December 15, 2008 at 7:57 am editJ.R. you could not have said it better! I have over 23 years experience and i was hired in this field only ending up to train some friend of the owner and being told they need to cut my hours OR being hired to do some pansy ass job which i DON’T do or putting up with such god awful romper room child office politics or get this… you are hired as a cosmetologist to do services but they end up making you answer the phone AND ITS CONTRACT LABOR with no taxes out what a buncha horse SH&^ . Finding a job with benefits, taxes taken out they act like you need to have PHD here for that….Texas was not a problem for these jobs… SUCKS, SUCKS , SUCKS… o yah I am still working on my top ten reasons to hate illinois list.
  71. J.R. Says:
    December 15, 2008 at 8:56 am editchristel,

    I used to have a blog about this but it was just making me more angry than I need to be discussing it.

    My main problem is how stupid everyone is and then these are the people who try to tell you what to do.

    That city will take its toll on you eventually. I personally get livid when the subject is brought up, mainly because no one else does and thats why that State will take it in the ass generation after generation, like those dumbass Chicago mobsters they allow to run the State.

    “long as I can sit in traffic or on a shitty train all day, Im ok with machine politicians running the state; I’ll just eat and drink my fatass into submission and be a passive-aggressive dickhead chicagoan on top of it.”

  72. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 15, 2008 at 11:03 am editThank God there is New York and a point of reference it provides. Otherwise Chicagoans would make everyone believe that Chicago is the greatest thing since the sliced bread. You know the mantra: “Chicago is the best” so it is soooo much better than the Moines but in the same time: “why compare Chicago to New York”?
    Chicagoans are simply very immature so they go through those convolutions to make sure they can feel good about their sh…thole… Pathetic.
    PS I had a fender bender yesterday, the other guy blew the stop sign and it turned out he did not have a driver’s license… Complaints about Chicago way of driving (were they all driving farm equipment before???) aside, can anyone tell me why would the state of Illinois let someone without a driver’s license register a car in the first place? I know for a fact that in New York, New Jersey or Florida you won’t be able to register a vehicle w/o a valid license from the state you are registering the vehicle in… Why is Illinois and Chicago so disorganized? Why the laws here are so dumb and out of sync with the rest of the country??? Chicago gave Americans the Obamarama, sweet talking about the change but don’t you think that given the local realities (Blago, Rezko, Ryan, aldermen routinely going to jail etc) that it is pretty ironic coming out of the Illinois congressman mouth? Don’t you think that Illinois/Chicago should clean itself first before taking this agenda to the rest of the country???
  73. DarcKnyt Says:
    December 15, 2008 at 4:12 pm editLost — Yep, Falcon and I have been saying it since his nomination: do you really, seriously, believe that Obama — Mr. Hopey McChange himself — is better than Ryan, Blago, Rostenkowski, Daley … all of the politicians around him? REALLY???

    It’s amazing — people only see what they want to see.

  74. christel runyan Says:
    December 15, 2008 at 4:49 pm editi forgot to mention this. We live 40 miles west of chicago and recieved a parking ticket for parking in downtown chicago on a thursday afternoon….. i was at work in my suburb i live, NOT down town at that time so the cop wrote the ticket off a few license plate #’s off obviously… never has this happened…usually they put the make of the car on the ticket itself. So I had to contest the ticket and defend myself for parking somewhere I never was !!!!TYPICAL CHICAGO BS

    You know, I was just reading about this. It must have been “What’s Your Problem” in the Trib or something like that. When the city is run by crooks, it’s not surprising that it just trickles down to all the other departments, too. Pathetic. I sure hope you won that one! You should sue them for expenses and court costs. Maybe that would teach them a lesson.

  75. northlakejoeyz Says:
    December 15, 2008 at 5:55 pm editThere are so many illegal immigrants from Mexico driving dangerously around Chicago, they should call it Mexicago! Some of these people got their drivers licenses from the gumball machine.Literally.
    Hey but (sarcasm ahead) the pizza is better here than anywhere else. Yeh right!

    My husband and I usually call it Amexica. Mexicago is good too. ;) Oh yeah, you can’t beat that Chicago pizza. Greasy sausage on saucy dough. Mmmm.

  76. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 16, 2008 at 12:58 am editIt kind of sounds like you have a little inferiority about Chicago as compared to NY. As a long time Chicagoan, I have to admit that I often catch my fellow Chicagoans putting down other midwest cities that are smaller. They argue that Chicago has alot more to offer, which it does. But just like New York, it also offers alot of headaches. I think some of the smaller metro areas of our country have a distinct advantage as far as being more livable. Chicago is becoming unlivable for many. I know many here who were very surprised to see the number of people who left Cook County in recent years. It has become the highest taxed county in the United States. And if the traffic flowed better here or the weather were better, I guess maybe we’d have it over New York, but it doesn’t have either. And New York just has too much to offer that Chicago doesnt, including lower crime and just plain more to do.

    an inferiority complex? nope…
    and i do not put down other smaller cities as your fellow chi-town comrades do.
    and i ahem, like deep dish *runs away*

    *flings pieces of sausage at ChiNy* ;) J/K!
    For the record, I do love pizza. I just don’t think “Chicago pizza” is all it’s cracked up to be.

  77. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 16, 2008 at 1:13 am edit“You know, I was just reading about this. It must have been “What’s Your Problem” in the Trib or something like that. When the city is run by crooks, it’s not surprising that it just trickles down to all the other departments, too. Pathetic. I sure hope you won that one! You should sue them for expenses and court costs. Maybe that would teach them a lesson.”

    That’s ironic when you consider how much money is stolen and wasted in Chicago, Cook County and Illinois by crooked politicians (Trib printed the list of VIP that ambitious Chicago DA prosecuted, it’s amazing…) and the government is trying to compensate for it’s own incompetence (where are the self-checks?) by penalazing the tax payers with new fees and other intinatives like towing cars for two tickets, rasing (again) the parking tax…
    I can’t believe “tough” Chicagoans are such a pansies and putting up with this c..p for so long… Obamarama? How about getting a decent governer for a change?

    PS. That ambitious DA is a very promising figure and a likely applicant for the governor’s job. I hope though that he reads newspapers and is not going to get shot down like Eliot Spitzer in New York…

    They don’t think of us as tax-payers. They think of us as “bank.”

  78. christel runyan Says:
    December 16, 2008 at 7:49 am editthe judge actually threw it out when i wrote a letter stating i was parked at fox valley mall 40 miles away( from the incident where the cop wrote the ticket) at that time and that I could prove it with the malls security cameras( parking lot)
    …. and as for the pizza… i do not like pizza a mile high full of mozarella and dead cows… i prefer a thin thin crust with mounds of basil and roma and fontina cheese…but then that is just me.
    So if ya’ll( yes that is a NON CHICAGO accent!LOL!) want some real pizza come on over to my house and we will have an anti chicago thin pizza crust party!

    At least you had a smart judge! Good for you!

  79. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 16, 2008 at 8:22 am editchristel runyan says:…. and as for the pizza… i do not like pizza a mile high full of mozarella and dead cows… i prefer a thin thin crust with mounds of basil and roma and fontina cheese…but then that is just me.
    So if ya’ll( yes that is a NON CHICAGO accent!LOL!) want some real pizza come on over to my house and we will have an anti chicago thin pizza crust party!

    True that! i like thin crust too. however, whenever i feel the need to stuff myself without eating a whole lot (lets say ONE slice of deep dish, lol) i opt for deep dish. i usually eat it plain or with pepperoni-i hate sausage. i haven’t had it in a while though…..

    One piece of deep dish is very, very filling. And I hate sausage, too.

  80. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 16, 2008 at 11:53 am edit“The need to stuff yourself?” You do not even know how wrong this statement is… That’s the problem with food in Chicago, it does not matter if it is good or not but you should be able to stuff yourself with it. That’s why most of it tastes like toilet paper and also why most of the people in Chicago are overweight including teenagers. When do you folks lose eating habits of farmers and factory workers i.e. a lots of greasy, high protein food necessary to sustain a day of hard physical labor?
  81. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 16, 2008 at 12:07 pm editAnd even farmers and factory workers do not need to eat like their fathers or grandfathers as there is much more mechanization and much less physical labor in those professions…
    It’s a vicious cycle, overweight parents teach those bad nutritional habits their children who will in turn teach their own. And it all starts with a need to “stuff yourself”.

    One piece! That’s all! That’s not stuffing yourself. Stuffing yourself is hogging at least half.
  82. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 16, 2008 at 12:50 pm editDarcKnyt Says:
    December 15, 2008 at 4:12 pm
    “Lost — Yep, Falcon and I have been saying it since his nomination: do you really, seriously, believe that Obama — Mr. Hopey McChange himself — is better than Ryan, Blago, Rostenkowski, Daley … all of the politicians around him? REALLY???

    It’s amazing — people only see what they want to see.”

    Yup. Unfortunately people like easy answers: Obama will come and fix this for us so we can sit on our asses, forgetting that democracy is a grass root momevent. You have to clean your own backyard before Washington will come in and clean it for you. Would the Blago scandal be possible if the local level politicians were clean and did not make deals with Blago? So let’s start with good alderman and mayors. Our country has forgot how it was built: by the people, for the people. The Chicago syndrom: all you need is wishful thinking so the city can spend another 100 years waiting for Cubs to win the title or for a decent governor to clean the state. Yes, it is really OK to get angry, voice your opinion and even complain. But we live in such a great city and state, aren’t we? )

    “Obama will pay my mortgage and put gas in my car!” Yeah, that’s the kind of mentality we’re fighting with. Wishful thinking works every time, just ask them.

  83. Ms. Zanadoo Says:
    December 16, 2008 at 3:29 pm editI left Chicago with my sister to go away for college. I’m not sure where this notion comes from, that you cannot get good pizza anywhere but Chicago or New York. I am just the ripe young age of 23 and I have already found alot of places during my travels that beat the Chicago pie hands down. Chicago pizza is just too darn greasy. And sauce on top I never liked. It’s more like lasagne or quiche, but not as good as either, you know?

    Welcome to our little corner, Ms. Zanadoo. ) Yes, the pizza here is way too greasy. I like the lasagna comparison – like lasagna on a crust. With extra sauce, and a minced bratwurst on top.

  84. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 16, 2008 at 6:01 pm editPizaa is just yet another Chicago urban legend. I can find hundreds of pizza parlors in New Jersey or any other place with a large Italian population that would beat Chicago hands down. I like pizza and I know my pizza. I had some good pizza in Chicago but most of it really sucks. Chicagoans have an annoying way of self proclaiming their superioty in such as absurd way… How can you claim superiority of hot dogs when they are the same Vienna brand hot dogs sold around the country and how pathetic can you be to claim superiority in the field so trivial?
    Is the hot dog the high point of Chicago culinary art? I bet Paris and Milan are secretely envying Chicago as we speak. Maybe Chicago french fries also special in some strange way? What about the iced tea here? Hamburgers? I bet it is the best you can get ) )
    Is anyone surprised that people from the coasts laugh out loud when they hear a true Chicagoan speak?

    Yeah, really, of all the things to brag about – the freaking hot dog? ROFL! I guess it’s the best they can do. ;)

  85. DarcKnyt Says:
    December 16, 2008 at 11:21 pm editMs. Zanadoo — You’re absolutely right. Pizza in Shitcago is WAY over-rated and not very good, period. I’ve gone to CHAINS where I grew up that beat the hell out of it, hands down. Falcon will back me on this. Heck, even the stuff we were DISAPPOINTED with was better than what you can get here.

    Lost — Yes, in fact, when I lived outside Shitcago, one of the things I was told NOT TO MISS about the food here was–ready?–THE CHEESE FRIES.

    So I came here and ordered them first chance I got. You know what I was handed? Besides a nasty ‘tude, I mean?

    I was handed a box of grease-sponges so soggy and limp I couldn’t dip them in the cold, congealed CHEEZ-WHIZ in the little plastic cup that came on top of them.

    Yeah. Shitcago cuisine. Need I say anything else?

    No, but I probably will.

    Absolutely I can back you up on that!

  86. christel runyan Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 8:12 am editMy husband and I plan on moving to NOrthern California to live with his sister, so i put a resume on Craigslist of san Fran. I asked a question in yahoo answers about how northern cali is and hands down got positive responses. Yesterday I worked and it took me 2 1/2 hours to get home in the snow…there was ONE SNOW plow the wholetime… I guess governor screwed up so bad the state cannot afford snow plows or sand or salt…maybe they are using all that salt for their shitty hot dogs and pizza LOL

    “Salt on their pizza and hot dogs …” ROFL!! That was funny! D

  87. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 8:41 am editChristel

    Congratulations on your move to Cali. Yes, the Chicago winter is a mystery by itself: it happens every year and yet most people, including the government, act like they have never seen the snow before. People drive live idiots, with no lights and no restrain and the city forgets that they have to plow the streets. And to think that we are paying the highest sales tax in the nation…

  88. christel runyan Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 9:24 am editPart-time Medical Assistant Needed (24th and Michigan)

    Reply to: job-961250551@craigslist.org [?]
    Date: 2008-12-17, 8:52AM CST

    Family Planning Center looking for a part-time Medical Assistant. Must speak fluent Spanish. Pleasant demeanor is a must. Computer experience is helpful. Please submit resumes via e-mail or fax to (847) 398-4585.

    Location: 24th and Michigan
    Compensation: $8.50 per hour
    This is a part-time job.
    Principals only. Recruiters, please don’t contact this job poster.
    Please, no phone calls about this job!
    Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

    Is this job post a joke?Who in their right mind would work for $8.50 an hour? I have worked for doctors in Texas and made twice as much as that…you couldnt live in chicago on this kind of money! Whats the matter with the job market here?

    The job market here sucks.

  89. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 9:53 am editI usually do the infamous McDonalds/Starbucks test. When you are in the area you are investigating walk into a local McDonalds and if you see anybody working there who is not a teenager or a very young adult that means that the area is economically depressed. If this test is inconclusive or you need more detailed picture walk into any local Starbucks. The criteria is the same but since Stabucks pays better and even offers some benefits so middleaged folks working there signify that the are is not depressed but job opportunities are nevertheless scarce. You can subsitute Starbucks with other retail outlets.

    That’s a pretty good test, Lost. I’ll have to remember that one.

  90. christel runyan Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 10:41 am editAnyone have any experience of living in northern california?
    Is it better than chicago? lol

    Darc and I grew up there. He’s got some good info below. )

  91. DarcKnyt Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 10:54 am editChristel — Yes, Falcon and I both grew up there, and went back in 2003 for an extended stay.

    Is it better than Shitcago? Well … yes and no.

    Yes, the weather’s better. Gotta be. Is the job market better? Not when I was there. I’m willing to bet not now either. Things suck all over. If you’re working and looking to leave your job, be very careful.

    Pay scales are similar, cost of living is higher. Sales taxes aren’t as high but are comparable. Traffic’s as bad, depending on WHERE in NoCal you go. The SF Bay Area boasts some of the worst traffic in the nation. If you’re looking for public transportation forget it. Unless you’re IN a major city moving AROUND a major city (and by that I mean either San Francisco or OaKland), you’re SOL on transit. Oh, you can find ways to get INTO the city, but good luck from there.

    Housing is RIDICULOUS. Maybe that’s changed.

    Food’s better, PERIOD. Hands DOWN. Find and In-and-Out Burger or a Straw Hat Pizza and tell ME it’s not better. I’ll know you’re a philistine if you do. ;)

    So — good luck, but it’s NOT a place I recommend for anyone. If you live in the valley be prepared for something like 10-15 days of over 100 degree temps and dense fog from time to time. I personally hate extremes in weather, but I love me some fog.

  92. christel runyan Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 11:08 am editoakland area OR more north like an area called sebastapol… i think its the napa region?
  93. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 12:07 pm editIt turns out the guy who had the balls to investigate and prosecute a current governor, I am talking about Patrick Fitzgerald and Blago of course, is originally from Brooklyn has been a ADA in New York and was brought to Chicago by an Illiinois senator who specifically wanted someone “from out of town” for the DA job. Pretty smart move, wasn’t it?

    Regardless of where his is from and even of his Harvard degree, don’t you think someone like this could be usefull to clean up Chicago/Illinois politics? I think having two governors in row sent to prison is a good enough reason to believe that there are some serious issues with the political system here and it requires an extraordinary individual to do the job? Otherwise I am afraid the job will go to another son/daughter/cousin/son-in-law of another Illinois political figure with very predictable results i.e. another “corruptus in extremis”…


    I thought I read in the Trib that Bush appointed him here, in like 2001 or 2002. We sure need this guy around!

  94. christel runyan Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 6:36 pm editLook at this! It was a true question posted on yahooo answers…can yo believe this?
    I live in Chicago where i got a ticket for leaving my car running unattended,remote starter,6 degree.What give?
    Is there really a law against remote starting your car to warm it up,if so,why would Illinois allow remote starters to be sold???-,it was 6 degrees.More nonsense so Illinois politicians can have pocket money????
  95. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 8:14 pm editI thought I read in the Trib that Bush appointed him here, in like 2001 or 2002. We sure need this guy around!

    Yup. Bush had to sign of on it however Fitzgerald was also the guy who sent Libby to jail and was almost nixed for that. He is also the guy who prosecuted Ryan, Rezko and many other Chicago political figures. An outsider with the balls. You may want to read the wikipedia entry I quoted above, a very interesting read…

  96. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 17, 2008 at 8:21 pm editchrsitel,

    I thought this law was introduced to keep truckers from running the engines all night in residential areas. I had no idea it can be used against cars… Check this document, however it does not seem applicable… Have you talked to a lawyer about this?


  97. christel runyan Says:
    December 18, 2008 at 5:21 am editit isn’t me…. i go on yahoo answers which is a forum for people who have questions about anything …there are categories and this question as posted by a person in the chicago category and I thought it fitting to paste it here as it seemed ridiculous that this happened to this person
  98. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 18, 2008 at 7:03 am edit“The need to stuff yourself?” You do not even know how wrong this statement is… That’s the problem with food in Chicago, it does not matter if it is good or not but you should be able to stuff yourself with it. That’s why most of it tastes like toilet paper and also why most of the people in Chicago are overweight including teenagers. When do you folks lose eating habits of farmers and factory workers i.e. a lots of greasy, high protein food necessary to sustain a day of hard physical labor?

    i dont “stuff myself” on a regular basis Lost in chicago, i was saying this in a tongue and cheek kinda way. by the way, i am not overweight.

  99. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 18, 2008 at 7:25 am edit..just in case you were alluding that
  100. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 18, 2008 at 9:30 am editvacillating

    I wasn’t. What I was alluding to, however, is that even though Chicago is a city it still has deep-country food habits so the food here has to be filling, stuffy etc etc as opposed to just being tasty or good. When I first came to Chicago I could not believe the percentage of people who are overweight, including teenagers and I believe this is due to the mentioned above food habits.

  101. Ms. Zanadoo Says:
    December 18, 2008 at 7:20 pm editChicago is often in the top 5 cities for obese people. A couple years ago sadly we were “#1 fattest city” in a popular health magazine. Stuffed pizzas. Greasy burgers. Loaded hot dogs. Polish sausage. Steak. Potatoes. Gyros. ribs. The high cardiac arrest rate could be due to the stressfulness of Illinois drivers on the freeways too. Did I mention the weather sucks? We may get 8 more inches of snow tonight. 14 inches to the north.

    Seriously? Fourteen more inches? Good grief. *heavy sigh*

  102. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 18, 2008 at 8:48 pm editIt is sad to see so many obese kids. I believe the British were even contemplating bringing abuse charges against parents of grossly obese children where there was no underlying medical condition. In my eyes it is nothing less than abuse to make a 12 years old weigh 200 lbs.
    Anyways, I think the key is that most people in Chicago lack moderation in eating (or anything else for that matter) They eat until they feel stuffed and since they do it regurarly (I go to lunches with folks from work, right in the loop) majority of them is going to get fat, sooner or later. I am not a salad guy, I am 6′0” and 200lbs fellow and can’t survive a day without meat but what I saw in Chicago restaurants was just terryfying…
    In New York obese person is viewed as someone with no control over your own body, no strong will, hence weak and neither trustworthy nor dependable. Probably not a good employee, either… Is it really OK to be obese in Chicago? Isn’t there any social/professional stigma attached to obesity?
  103. Ms. Zanadoo Says:
    December 19, 2008 at 1:27 pm editNo.
    “The fatter the better” is our motto here in Chicago. Just kidding. But as an RN, I get a little tired of lifting these 250-400 lb women and men. Like I say, the culture here is alot different than in New York or LA. In Chicago there are tons of people living from paycheck to paycheck and in massive debt. often it’s cold pizza for breakfast. Hams and other salted meats are considered a staple. I don’t know, it’s really sad when you see these people on their deathbeds and you just want to scream “how’s that diet of stuffed pizza, steak, and polish sausage working for ya now?” I would never do that. But it crosses my mind
  104. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 19, 2008 at 6:13 pm editMs Zanadoo,

    Believe or not but this was an honest question. Since you an RN you know more than I do of long term effects of being obese with hart, lung, joints, spine and foot problems just starting the list. Its not only about looking good it also about general health and attitude toward life. It’s sad, especially since so many people do not see a problem in their obesity until it is too late…

  105. LSDetroit Says:
    December 21, 2008 at 8:22 am editThere is also a serious lack of gyms in this city.

    There are a lot of great places to eat in this city, but most suck. The emphasis is on quantity over quality. Chicago Italian Sausage is vile, but the locals love shoveling phallic things down their throat.

    Christ, Fox Chicago News this morning is practically holding a Blago blowjob. HE DESERVES TO BE IMPEACHED BECAUSE HE IS A CORRUPT ASSHOLE! Seriously, Al Quida, NUKE CHICAGO, it will actually improve the US. This retarded idea that corruption is A-OK needs to fucking die.

  106. LSDetroit Says:
    December 21, 2008 at 8:24 am editGuliani, bloomberg > Daley
    NYC > Chicago
  107. Ms. Zanadoo Says:
    December 21, 2008 at 8:35 am editIt’s a Chicago tradition. Keep voting in the corrupt democratic machine. I’m tired of this city and its wannabe New York politics. if you REALLY want to be more like New york, instead of Millenium Park, how about cleaning up the gang crime?? Chicago still has the worst crime rate of ANY big city. Isnt New York like 5 times bigger but has FEWER total murders somehow. What’s wrong with this place??

    This was in the Trib yesterday:
    It’s also in a tight race with New York City for the most homicides in the country. By Dec. 14, New York had 492 homicides, the same as Chicago’s tally on Friday.

    Still, Weis said Chicago’s murder total for 2008 will be among the lowest in decades—the fifth lowest since 1965.

    It cracks me up that they say we’re in a race with NY for homicides. What they completely neglected to mention is that NY has 4 times as many people as Chicago. They then go on to say that Chicago’s murder rate is among “the lowest in decades” after sneaking in the fact that it’s actually up 17% over last year. But it’s among the lowest rates in decades, don’t forget! The double-speak here is pathetic and sickening.

  108. johhnyd Says:
    December 21, 2008 at 12:17 pm editThe corruption, the murder rate, the garbage, the homeless problem. It’s a little embarassing at times. When my aunt and uncle visited us for the first time from the east coast, their first impression of Chicago was “This is gross!” I was a little surprised and insulted, since they are from the east coast, a place I always heard was dirty. But then I traveled to visit them, and surprisingly, the east coast cities were alot cleaner and better organized than Chicago. I had always heard that Manhattan traffic was a nightmare. While that might be true, their transit system blows Chicago’s L out of the water. Also New York just has a more bustling feel 24 hours a day. Chicago has its lulls. you can drive downtown here on a Sunday morning and it’s pretty desolate. I can’t knock my hometown too much. It is CHEAPER to live here. But if I could live anywhere, it would not be Chicago, for many reasons.

    Where did you end up? If you don’t mind me asking. You said before that you got out back in 2001? I always love to hear stories of people escaping. ) Gives me hope.

  109. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 21, 2008 at 12:50 pm editjohnyd:
    “The corruption, the murder rate, the garbage, the homeless problem. It’s a little embarassing at times.”

    Yes it is. But most Chicagoans are so defensive and insecure that they will even deny existence of these problems. Daley’s administration has an easiest job on the planet: playing Chicago’s inferiority complex and false pride, they are not held accountable for anything. After the highways, airports and parking meters there soon will be nothing left to mortgage out, so the city will have to face the results of its terrible fiscal policy and years of corruption, wasting and plain stealing. Oh, let’s get the Olymipics here so the contractors to whom the City Hall will steer the contracts will make even more money while the rest of us will foot the bill… Let’s have some fun while the city’s streets continue to deteriorate and crime rates approach those of Tijuana….
    Are the people of Chicago so blind that they need a federal prosecutor to force them to acknowledge reality? What about this famous Midwestern “down-to-earth” attitude?
    Where is public outrage, ballots, public hearings… Oh, I forgot this is not LA or NY..

  110. christel runyan Says:
    December 21, 2008 at 1:24 pm editstep outside today… walk across a parking pot and see how much you love chicago today

    ( I did . My eyes watered ,and my tears froze)

    With the wind chill, it feels closer to -30. I told my husband, leave the garbage in the house, no going outside! I’m telling you, too. ;)

  111. christel runyan Says:
    December 21, 2008 at 1:25 pm editparking lot not pot…see my fingers are frozen!LOL!
  112. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 21, 2008 at 5:17 pm editYup. I checked temps in several cities at Chicago -4F was colder than New York (30s) and… Anchorage. I am not kidding. See for yourself…
  113. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 21, 2008 at 5:24 pm edit5:20PM
    Temp/temp w/windchill:
    Chicago -2F/-27F
    New York 35F/25F
    Toronto ON 10F/-9F
    Anchorage AK 10F/10F

    I have no idea how Chicago gets colder than Toronto and Anchorage. It must be the atmosphere in the city adding to the weather….

    My husband and I have been saying for years that Chicago is often colder than AK, and almost no one ever believes us. The stats speak, do they not? It’s freakin’ cold here!

  114. Ms. Zanadoo Says:
    December 21, 2008 at 11:08 pm editDarcNes,
    On AOL today there was a link to a Forbes survey/ranking where Chicago was ranked the #1 most STRESSFUL city in America. WOW. You really have to out do yourself to top L.A. or New York. Factors were high unemployment like the other cities, but also higher crime, high population density, traffic gridlock, weather, and so forth.

    That one came out about 3 mos ago, and we had TONS of fun with it. D Many of the people who stop by here on a semi-regular basis were loaded with comments and vindication. It was a blast. Here’s a link to a post I did about it too, if you wanted to read more. )


  115. woody h Says:
    December 22, 2008 at 2:00 am editMaybe the problem with Chicago is that it’s part of Illinois!


    Hmm, interesting notion. I suspect the problem with IL is that Chicago is in it. Thanks for stopping by, Woody, and for commenting. )

  116. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 22, 2008 at 8:17 am editMs Zanadoo,

    We had some fun with this already… You know first we did not like or rather despise Chicago but it was difficult to put your fingers on it but then came FBI crime stats, Forbes list and now Blago scandal so we could finally put that “good to raise children, hardworking,well-grounded and honest city” BS to rest…

  117. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 22, 2008 at 9:48 am editwoody h

    would like to have Chicago in Wisconsin? Why ? So this tasteless, brainless arrogant city could corrupt the rest of the state? Be careful what you wish for… X-mass is coming.

  118. Ms. Zanadoo Says:
    December 22, 2008 at 11:25 pm editWell I’ll tell ya, this “fair city” of Chicago is not all it’s cracked up to be. The positives? Well, there are just not too many, unless you are vacationing here (in the early summer) but otherwise I feel like everyone I know is leaving Chicago every chance they get. It gets annoying an stressful living here after a while, and there are not enough good reasons to stay. There is a very hick element to this city. A very “ghettoy garbage” feel, even in the corporate setting. Tattooed secretaries and bloated businessmen with bad haircuts. Mike Ditka look-alikes and degenerate drunken baseball fans with a subpar understanding of sports. The whole damn place is becoming commercialized and lame. One big strip mall and greasy food stand after another. I read that link and I don’t think that even Wisconsin would have us.
  119. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 23, 2008 at 1:00 am editThat were exactly my initial observations from Chicago! I could never figure out why the corporate folks here act mostly like hicks: girls with visible tattoos and flip-flops to work, guys with bad haircuts and horrible-looking K-mart ties and shoes. I couldn’t also figure out why in the same time they all act so innatural, serious and “proper”. Only after talking to some of them I found out that they were vastly from small towns in this and surrounding states and very often the very first generation that made it to college. They were simply trying to prove that they were worthy of this perceived upward movement by showing off their education, eloquence and dedication. Unfortunately, it soon turned out to be all pretense: their knowledge very academic and two-dimensional and their dedication and seriousness just a cover for lack of creativity and independent thinking. Pink shirts and carry-on bags, all very cliche, and very scared.

    I think that to some extent the entire city of Chicago suffers from a big identity crisis: it tries really hard to forget what it used to be but not really sure what it is or wants to be. It’s like some kind of widespread, social schizophrenia, where dychotomy between perception and reality is fueled by a deep, inherent inferiority complex. Ever tried talking to a Chicagoan about any problems in the city? Good luck.

  120. christel runyan Says:
    December 23, 2008 at 9:01 am editeveryone can wear one of these to work….. |

    (fixed the link for you ) )

  121. christel runyan Says:
    December 23, 2008 at 9:03 am editi guess that didnt post it was a bears baby out fit,,,, sorry…it was kinda funny and hideous at the same time
  122. christel runyan Says:
    December 23, 2008 at 9:08 am edithttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/cristelleR/fan-bears-guy.jpg

    here i found abetter out fit anyways

    ROFL! Now that’s hideous! LOL

  123. johhnyd Says:
    December 23, 2008 at 10:30 am edit“Where do you think they’re all headed every chance they get?”–from the song “The Bears Still Suck”

    There is some truth to that. Generations of Chicagoans have loved to flock to Wisconsin. Not so much their own state of Illinois or Indiana. Hmmmm.

  124. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 23, 2008 at 1:42 pm editms. zanadoo said:The whole damn place is becoming commercialized and lame. One big strip mall and greasy food stand after another

    case in point Navy Pier. i worked their in the summer as a teen. it was cool for a couple of weeks, but i personally feel that if your not under 12, you probably will be bored out of your mind if you visited there. just my opinion….

  125. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 23, 2008 at 3:18 pm editChiNy,

    You can say that about entire Chicago area. Cookie-cutter strip malls and lots of big chain restuaraunts, nothing new or original. Even the magnificent mile present stores you can find in average mall in New Jersey, Florida or Connecticut. Boring and uninspiring as small town blown out of proportions. We have already established that few months ago.

    But we have the bean! Don’t forget the bean!! ;)

  126. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 23, 2008 at 3:30 pm editIllinois Governor Rod Blagojevich says he will not fill Barack Obama’s seat any time soon.
    He says he’s going to wait until summer when prices improve.

    – Jay Leno

  127. johhnyd Says:
    December 23, 2008 at 3:52 pm editBuh dump bump.
    Did anyone catch the Monday night football game last night? Lots of ignorant Bears fans caught on film, showing that yet again, Chicago sports fans are about as dumb as they get. One of the Bears players picked up a kicked ball that another Bear had tried to down at the 1 yard line. He carried the ball into the endzone with his momentum. The TV showed an entire section of Bears fans who were upset that the ball was not placed at the 1. The commentators said “well, they’re really knowledgable fans here in Chicago” (sarcasm)

    And did you see the huge guys screaming that the one play was actually a touchdown when it was proven that it wasn’t? The one that “bounced off” the Packers player? Jeez, huge Jumbo-tron showed the Packers player never touched the ball, it was NOT a touchdown, and the Bears fans were screaming. Evidence isn’t good enough for you? They were so stereotypical.

  128. christel runyan Says:
    December 23, 2008 at 9:08 pm editand why do they all talk like this…dis and dat and de dis and de dat….uggggggghhhhhhhhh

    Like Dennis Franz? Laziness. His name is actually Thennis. ;) Sorry, lame.

  129. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 24, 2008 at 4:46 am editBlagogate continued…
    It’s official now Chicago is the “America’s sleaziest city”: After the London’s Telegraph – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/profiles/3710309/Profile-Patrick-Fitzgerald-a-modern-day-Eliot-Ness.html

    “More than 70 years after the fall of Al Capone, Chicago has shown the world it remains America’s sleaziest city.

    And just as the incorruptible Eliot Ness stepped forward to make his name in the 1930s, another tough-nut ‘Untouchable’ is now ready to make the headlines.

    US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald must have known the comparisons would come thick and fast when he arrived in Chicago in 2001 charged with cleaning up the cynical, money-driven local government.

    He may not be risking his life raiding illicit distilleries and breweries but the Brooklyn lawyer has already become something of a folk hero.

    As he demonstrated at his press conference on Tuesday, Mr Fitzgerald knows, like his predecessor, how to cultivate the press.

    He addressed them all on first name terms and showed a colourful turn of phrase and easy-going confidence on stage.

    He rattled through the alleged transgressions of Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich with a mixture of disgust and delight.

    The governor’s conduct, he said, “would make Lincoln roll over in his grave” and was “reminiscent of a salesman meeting his annual sales target”.

    Like Ness, Fitzgerald is also a formidable workaholic. As a young prosecutor in New York, he didn’t connect the heating in his flat for several years because he was there so seldom. He often ate his evening meal alone when all else had departed and during long trials would sleep and shower in the office.

    Colleagues say Fitzgerald – ‘Fitzy’ to his friends – has little room for a social life and indeed he married only this year at the age of 47, to a teacher Jennifer Letzkus.

    His internet blog, which is subtitled ‘Fighting for Truth, Justice and the American Way’, reveals there was no time for a honeymoon.

    Fitzgerald’s work ethic was inherited from his father, an Irish immigrant who worked as a doorman in Manhattan and never took a holiday as he raised a family of four in Brooklyn, New York.

    Attending a Jesuit school and growing up in a strict but loving working class household also gave him a strong sense of right and wrong, friends say, that he has carried into his professional life and has made him genuinely indignant at wrongdoing.

    There was an element of the crusader at his press conference, when he spoke about how the culture of corruption in Illinois could be beaten.

    “What’s going to make a difference is when people who are approached to pay-to-play [indulge in bribery] first say no, and second report it,” he said.

    After graduating from the elite Amherst University, where he played rugby, and Harvard Law School, Fitzgerald began at the New York public prosecutor’s office at the age of 27 and rose quickly through the ranks.

    He made his name prosecuting mafia leaders John and Joseph Gambino, and Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind Egyptian cleric who plotted bomb attacks on various US landmarks. He also tried four men for the 1998 US embassy bombings in east Africa and helped to build a criminal case against Osama bin Laden in the wake of those attacks.

    He moved in to the national public eye in 2004 after his appointment as special prosecutor in the investigation of the leaking of the identity of Valerie Plame, a covert CIA agent and the wife of Joseph Wilson, a former ambassador who had criticised the Iraq war.

    The investigation led to a 30-month conviction Lewis “Scooter” Libby, chief of staff to Vice-President Dick Cheney, for perjury and obstruction of justice. Many conservatives felt Fitzgerald overstepped the mark, as no one was ever charged with the underlying crime of the leak, and it was not even clear that Mrs Plame was even a covert officer at the time her name was revealed to journalists.

    “He is relentless,” said Bryon York, White House correspondent with the National Review. “But Fitzgerald won the conviction and that was in large part because of his determination.”

    Fitzgerald himself would have been as shocked as anyone to be included on People’s Magazine Sexiest Man Alive list in 2005, during the Libby investigation. By that time he was already something of a hero, if not a heart-throb, in Chicago.

    Within a year of taking the job as US Attorney for northern Illinois, he began investigating George Ryan, the Republican governor, who in 2006 was sentenced to six years for taking kickbacks on state contracts. He also pursued corruption charges against numerous aides and associates of Richard Daley, the mayor and a Democrat like Mr Blagojevich.

    Along the way he successfully prosecuted Conrad Black, the former Telegraph owner, who had a company based in Chicago, for fraud.

    Despite his strait-laced resolve, Fitzgerald knows the law is the art of the possible.

    According to one journalist who faced prosecution during the Plame case for not revealing his sources, the governor would probably find his tormentor amenable to deal-making.

    In an open letter to Mr Blagojevich, Matt Cooper said: “I don’t think you’re dealing with some loon. He’s a hard ass, but a reasonable one.”

    But he added as a warning: “Contrition is key here… he can smell a liar. If you beg for mercy, you might get it.”

    Anyways, Patrick Fitzgerald, the gutsy Brooklyn attorney responsible for airing out Blagogate has his own blog http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com

  130. Ms. Zanadoo Says:
    December 25, 2008 at 2:22 pm editWhy does this surprise people? Much of early Chicago was built using blood money! Not much has changed. The “outfit” and other hometown criminal syndicates, like City Hall for example, basically built a city from 1920s and 30s onward that is the ultimate microcosm of American government as a whole (corrupt)…the underlying idea behind a city like Chicago is..”let us build, build build but keep the working class poor poor poor.” There is no concern about the basic livability of the average citizen in Chicago. Look at how Chicago is marketed. Basically we are led to believe that we are like New York but less expensive and “more friendly” Simply fodder. The demographic that inhabits New York City is very different, far less blue collar in comparison and an economy far more corporate driven. That is the #1 reason that Chicago has more violent crime than a city 5 times its size.
  131. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 25, 2008 at 2:34 pm editms.zanadoo said:The demographic that inhabits New York City is very different, far less blue collar in comparison and an economy far more corporate driven. That is the #1 reason that Chicago has more violent crime than a city 5 times its size.

    correct me if i’m wrong, but didn’t new york have a crime problem pre- giuliani?

  132. Ms. Zanadoo Says:
    December 25, 2008 at 3:17 pm edityes they did, but not for a long time now. the fact remains. chicago has outdone NY in the crime department for many years. Its very bad when Chicago has more overall murders than a city 5 times bigger! There is no doubt that New york is a sink or swim kind of town. You have to make a great deal of money to live there successfully. Chicago? Not so much. The “corporate” types of Chicago are not as serious, and therefore companies here and generally not as successful, and are often run into the ground by these passive aggressive midwest types with substance abuse problems.
  133. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 25, 2008 at 8:07 pm editThe problem with Chicago is the attitude. Yes, New York had a crime problem (and still has as any large city in the world) but no one was ever denying it. LA had a crime and gang problem so they hired police commisioner who was substantial in cleaning up New York (Ray Kelly – look him up) and they got much better!. There was a time when Tokyo, London and LA were flying their expets to New York to learn about crime fighting technics that were so succesfull in New York (do some googling) but not Chicago. why? First of all, as we all know, Chicago does not have any problems and we are all just happy to be here, secondly Chicago has always been like this and there is no way you can change anything, thirdly Chicago has its own way of dealing with problem and both New York and LA can shove their ideas way up their a…. That’s Chicago attitudes and look, LA has less murders per capita than Chicago, less robberies and less violant crime in general, so does New York…
    Think about it, New York with its Italian, Russian and Chinese mafia (triads), , located in a more densely populated East Coast, being much more diverse that Chicago, an international port and hosting 44 milion tourists a year has less crime per capita than Chicago! LA being infested with Cribs, Blooods, Latin Kings etc etc and being practically a border city has also less crime than Chicago. How is this possible? What is Chicago police doing instead of fighting crime in the city? What are they NOT doing?
    How was it was possible that some attorney from Brooklyn was able to prosecute two Illinois governors and numerous figures of the establishment, when most locals simply dismissed that as impossible? Attitude and guts are the keys. Chicagoans are tough in talk but when it comes to taking action they are like gutless bunch of sheep. As they say in New York, “bulls…t talks, money walks”.
    Dream on, Chicago… With this attitude there is as much chance for Chicago to become a modern, succesfull city as it for Cubs and Sox to have a a Subway Series in Chicago.
  134. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 25, 2008 at 8:12 pm editI meant, money talks, bullshit walks .. sorry.
  135. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 26, 2008 at 12:42 am editI thought this would be funny to mention. Our anti-matter – The “Why I Love Chicago” site has this precious paragraph on the topic of Chicago sports:

    “Chicago is home to some of the most beloved teams in all of sports. One of only a few cities to have two Major League Baseball teams, Chicago has a long and famous history with sports. From “Shoeless Joe” Jackson to Michael Jordan, Chicago sports teams have a legendary past; today, our teams continue to carry on that tradition of excellence”

    Is the author really talking about the same “two Major League Baseball teams” we know to exist in Chicago of which one won the title once and the other twice in their hundred years old history??? Or the Bears that haven’t won in about 40 years?
    That’s typical Chicago paranoia i.e. taking wishful thinking for reality, hoping nobody would notice or knows the scores. In conversations with the locals it usually spreads to other topics regarding Chicago, like its culture, entertainment, education.

    You have to be carefull, though, and God forbids ever question any of those pompous statements while in Chicago. Never ask what tradition of excellence are they talking about or try to remind them the scores… Yes Chicago is the best, most beautiful and cultured city in the US. And it has the “most beloved” sport teams in all sports )

    From: http://www.whyilovechicago.com/sports-in-chicago.asp

  136. Ms. Zanadoo Says:
    December 26, 2008 at 10:58 am editI guess if by “beloved” they mean “bemoaned”..then yeh, I guess it’s an accurate statement! haha. Chicago sports teams are much like the city itself. In other words, they all WANT to play with the “big boys” (NY, LA) yet alas,our Chicago is only as flashy as the thin facade, so they CAN’T hang.
    The REAL Chicago, and the sports teams here, are bullshit under the surface. Only the fans care about winning anything in Chicago, and many of them do not even care about that. “As long as we tried and had fun that’s all that matters” right? Typical Cubs/Bears fan bullshit. Weinies. All the owners in Chicago care about is maximizing their profits on these idiots and nothing more. That is a backwards philosophy for such a big city like Chicago. Their brains must be frozen due to weather issues. (It pisses my fellow Chicagoans off when I say this) The truth hurts. Look how hard the Cubs organization tried to LOOK and ACT like the Yankees the last few years. They actually tried to make it look like they were BUYING a championship. But they built a team of misfit primadonnas and swelled heads just good enough to create a buzz, and that would guarantee that the average sheep in Chicago wouldkeep filing through the turnstiles. They still wont admit that that dump of a ballpark may be the problem, with all that wind blowing in. But the owners know that Wrigley is the moneymaker, not the team. They don’t want Wrigley to be empty like it wass back in the 1970s and 1980s do they? No, they want to capitalize on the “classic” ballpark. By classic they mean urine smelling, SanFranciscan beer garden.
  137. timmay Says:
    December 26, 2008 at 1:48 pm edit‘yet alas,our Chicago is only as flashy as the thin facade, so they CAN’T hang’

    Yes! This is Chicago in a nutshell. Chicago competes to be a world city and they have succeeded in this in some ways, but its average citizen pays a heavy and unnecessary price, while receiving little in return.
    Also, look at the glaring differences between Chicago and other world cities such as LA and New York City. Chicago is very deficient in some categories…#1 The citizens. Friendly you say? I’m sorry, but the average Chicagoan is very aggressive, often redneck or thuggish, and if they don’t fit those categories then they are passive aggressive yuppies who take their aggressions out via their underachieving sports teams- or by road raging on local freeways. There is also an untold tradition in Chicago, one of closet racism which is passed from one generation to the next. There is also a sense of inferiority which permeates the city, causing the urban hillbillies who live there to look down their nose at others from neighboring states to make themselves feel important. Also, nowhere have the babyboomers sold out more than in Chicago. Just look around you. #2. The poor road system. Noone can tear up a road like Illinois. And the freeway systems rank terribly, only behind L.A. in terms of gridlock. This forces high commute times, and a community of aggressive drivers and tailgaters. Did I mention they actually CHARGE you to drive on their roads? and the roads SUCK! #3. The second rate culture. Or is that third rate? Chicago is overrated culturally. Giant shiny bean anyone? Ferris wheel? Stuffed pizza? Uninspiring skyscraper? Overpriced “fancy” restaurant that basically serves BALLPARK food? Third rate, poorly performed theatre? The symphony is quite good, but unfortuantely, Chicago is more Lynyrd Skynrd that it is Bach or Beethoven. The art museums are even borderline TACKY. That’s right. Check them yourself and if you think they are exquisite, then you are a rube. #4 the sports teams. Chicago has always been an underachiever in the sports world when compared to other great cities. Cities that are much smaller than Chicago, Clevland and Boston come to mind, have better attendance that humongous Chicago. Pretty lame. #5. The night life. Hmmm. Let’s see. Modern blues sucks. The clubs are thug city. The bars are filled with amatures clueless college dorks and white trash midwestern sluts who invite date rape. Sound pretty accurate? #6. The attitude. This is Chicago’s main downfall. Their “we are the best and everone else can kiss our ass” attitude is absolutely laughable. They are completely backwards on so many levels. No wonder it takes illegal activities and criminal politicians to keep their city growing.

    Welcome to the club here, Timmay. Nice to see new faces. I can tell you’ve thought a lot about the things about Chicago that bother you. Many here have voiced similar feelings. I hope to see you around again. )

  138. Jordan Says:
    December 26, 2008 at 5:34 pm editYou people are flat-out ridiculous.

    You know, Jordan, normally I try to be tolerant of dissenting opinions here. However, you’ve been a bit on the rude side, and I’m not feeling so accommodating right now. You see, I said right at the top of the post that if you’ve come here to argue with me, please don’t bother. You either didn’t read that, or chose to ignore it. Whatever. The thing that I find most amusing is that you saw right at the top, “Why I think Chicago sucks,” and then got pissed when you found it. Not only that, but you came back twice. What were you expecting? And, I don’t take kindly to people calling my commenters here names.

    What a bizarre conversation you all are having! How much time you people spend writing (and hopelessly generalizing and stereotyping) about how much you hate the place where you nonetheless, continue to live! Attempting to classify a city as large and impossibly complex as Chicago as “bad” or “good” is a ridiculous endeavor. There are so many things here to criticize, as there are to enjoy and celebrate. This is no different than any other large metropolis. You either enjoy living here or you don’t. The question of whether Chicago’s citizens are friendly or unfriendly is also hopelessly futile. Each of us has our own subjective experiences in any environment, and we can say whether, on balance, we’re happy or not. But to say that our experiences, especially the negative ones, are directly related to the city we’re in, and assign a supposedly objective quality to the city is just absurd. Having said that, and at the risk that this is merely an experiment in gauging peoples’ reaction to the insane notion that a city’s residents are either friendly or unfriendly, that a given city either sucks or rocks, I will nonetheless offer the following rebuttal, not in the hopes that it will change your mind, but just because this place is so f-in’ awesome:

    Oh my gosh! NONE of us has EVER heard a rebuttal for our thoughts about Chicago before! You mean, there are actually people who like Chicago? No way! Next you’ll tell me there are even songs singing Chicago’s praises! I bet they even have titles like, “My kind of town” or something similar! That’s just so bizarre that people disagree with us!

    Culture? The most vibrant theater scene in the country. On any given night, there are plays being staged all over the city that will rock your world. Musicals, dance numbers, literary gems, new productions, what have you. Steppenwolf’s production of “August Osage County” is a ridiculous hit on Broadway, Goodman, and and hundreds of spectacular off-Loop playhouses, the birthplace of modern architecture, crucial roles in the development of jazz and the blues (and thus rock and roll), the Art Institute, Museum of Contemporary Photography, etc., Lyric Opera, Old Town School of Folk Music, and it goes on.

    Wow, how amazing! I bet there’s no other city in the world that has culture and theater. No, NONE!

    Comedy? Most of the people we love on TV got their start at Second City and Improv Olympic: Tina Fey and Stephen Colbert to name just two.

    But a bunch of funny people came from NYC, and Denis Leary and Stephen Wright are from Boston, so feel free to live there!

    Music? Wilco, Smashing pumpkins, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Lyric Opera….

    But the Eagles are from California, and flights leave daily from O’Hare AND Midway….

    You mean, comedians and musicians actually come from other cities besides Chicago? Really? Because the way you talk, Chicago has the market cornered on those things, so I think you’re just making it up that other cities have comedians and musicians.

    The best sports town in America, especially given the relative futility of its teams. You get two baseball options here, with distinct personalities, in addition to healthy (if not dominating) football, basketball, and hockey teams, not to mention the local colllege teams. ROFL You ARE joking, right?

    But if you want a better winning percentage, move to Boston. Perhaps you aren’t aware I’m a Patriots fan.

    A healthy academic climate, with the Univ. of Chicago, Northwestern, UIC, Depaul, and many others.

    But, again, Boston has Harvard and MIT, so catch a flight if you want to live there.

    No, I’m sure NO other cities have academia, ONLY Chicago.

    Tremendous, unmatched recreation, including Millenium Park and 26 miles of public lakefront. The bean! Can’t forget the bean! The shiny, sparkly bean! Oh my gosh, the BEAN!

    But if you need oceans, head to a coast.

    The politics may be dirty (they often are), but don’t fool yourself into thinking that any other city is much better. Plus, we did produce the president-elect. We think that’s pretty cool. Hawaii might beg to differ. But, sure, be proud that the one you voted for came out of the slimiest political pit in the country. Did I mention I’m Republican? GUESS how much pride I feel about Obama?

    But if you want cleaner politics, try Madison, Wisconsin.

    Food? You hate the Taste of Chicago? Don’t go!! How is it that the Taste, which is optional for any Chicagoan or tourist, is something that makes your life here so miserable? Don’t go!! Too many frat guys in Wrigleyville, too many thugs in the clubs, too many whatevers in wherever? Go somewhere else! Try Buona Terra in Logan Square, try Ignotz on heart of Chicago, over at 24th & Oakley. Try any place on 18th Street in Pilsen. Try Hot Doug’s in Roscoe Village. Try some German food in Lincoln Square. There are a zillion neighborhoods here, with all sorts of people and things to do. I wouldn’t go to the Taste if you paid me. And trying to find a decent place to eat shouldn’t feel like a treasure hunt.

    And if you can’t find a single good piece of good food here, go somewhere else. We have a train station, and Amtrak goes just about everywhere, if you don’t mind a 22-hour delay once in awhile (never happens anywhere else).

    It is quite racially segregated here. That’s a minus for most people. If that’s a deal-breaker, we have airports to fly out of, and luggage stores to help you pack.

    Transportation? My commute’s awesome, because I moved close to a brown line stop and I work in the Loop. I love the commute. If you don’t like the commute, change your circumstances so that it works for you. Well la-dee-da for you! Would you like a medal? Sure, let me just find that magic wand to change MY circumstances, I know it’s around here someplace.

    Look, I know this isn’t new, but it bears repeating. Endlessly. There’s a reason you’re still here, despite that you think it sucks. Either you’re hopelessly conflicted, or you’re addicted to misery. Because, while a city can facilitate a good time, it can’t make you happy or sad, and a city as large as Chicago can never be all good or all bad. I’ve lived here most of my 41 years, and lived elsewhere for a few years here and there, and I love it here. But my family and most of my friends are here, so that’s a big part of it. I’ve met great people here and bloodless suckwads also. There are MILLIONS of people, they can’t be all friendly or all jerks. There’s crime and there are heroes, there are corrupt police officers and police officers who save little kids from burning buildings when their parents are out on the town. Just like any big city.

    Yes, there’s a reason I’m still here, and while I can’t speak for everyone who comes here regularly, it’s called MONEY. See, with the unemployment rate being higher than the national average, finding a decent job is a bit on the difficult side. And no doubt you’ve not had to deal with the phrase, “No, please don’t send us your resume, we don’t accept non-local candidates.”

    And you are wrong, wrong, WRONG! A city CAN make us happy or sad! It CAN be all good or all bad! People ARE either all friendly or all jerks! NO ONE is a blend of both good and bad! EVERYONE is archetypal! *rolling my eyes*

    The trains don’t always run on time, but they go so many more places than the trains in Boston, and they’re still pretty affordable.

    The ridiculous generalizations on this site are only exceeded by the simplistically idiotic idea that a city this size can be labeled qualitatively good or bad. And all of that pales in comparison to the amount of time you whiners (yeah, I said it) spend criticizing Chicago, when you could be doing something to lessen the misery inherent in your own lives, that, by the way, has nothing to do with the city you live in.

    See, here’s what you’re not getting. The people here are doing all they can to “lessen the misery” of their lives (and you’re pretty mistaken to presume they’re miserable in the first place), and one of the ways they do that is to come here and blow off steam. It’s fun to meet other people who feel the same way you do about a place, it makes us laugh at the things we find in common. We enjoy sharing our stories and encouraging one another. If that bugs you, too bad, there’s the door. As I said in the beginning, this is a place for people who DON’T like Chicago, and that obviously doesn’t include you. Why you bothered to stop by is beyond me, as is the time you wasted on your “rebuttal.”

    Grow up, kids.

    Know what’s funny? I’m older than you, as are several here. And know what’s funnier than that? You’re ISP lists you as posting from Costa Mesa, CALIFORNIA. It just cracks me up that you think you have some leg to stand on insulting us for what we deal with on a regular basis, when you’re not even here yourself.

  139. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 26, 2008 at 5:51 pm editBuddy, pack out? Do you think we chose Chicago to be our city??? Bu the way, we all complain about roads, sports and art in Chicago but these are people’s attitudes that make living here such a terrible experience. Just look at what you just wrote: defensive and immature drivel full of empty statements about vibtrant theater life or healthy academic atmosphere. Wishful Chicago thinking…

    PS. Obama origin argument is absurd beyond comprehension, do you think Little Rock was as proud about Clinton?
    You should rather focus on the fact that two of the last governors are crooks. What does it tell you about local politics? Obama, that’s so funny.

    That Obama line made me laugh, too. D

  140. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 26, 2008 at 10:00 pm editas one who used to live on the northside, i felt as a tween that i was forced to root for the Cubs. i hated baseball in general, but got lured into the sport around the time mark mcguire and sammy sosa made it “popular” again. around this time i, uh… rooted for them (i was young i didn’t know any better) but have since seen the light and pity the cubs and their misguided fans.

    …. and here’s something i’ve noticed. do any of you guys notice the socioeconimic stereotypes that are typical of a cubs/sox fan? white-middle/upper class families, or yuppies from the northern suburbs (i.e. Evanston)and/or lincoln park who come to enjoy a day at the historical (read dilapidated urine smelling bathrooms,not-watching-the-game-’cause-i’m-too busy-talking-on my cellphone “fans”, crappy connies pizza and other subpar food,sitting next to beer spilling alcoholics) wrigley field versus the blue collar,hickish sox fans who lament on why they’re the black sheep of the city who come to enjoy a game at (read adequate food at an adequate venue) U.S cellular.

    The Cubs SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Rickety Field SUCKS!!!!!!

    I’ve never been a baseball fan, hon, so I’ve never followed anything to do with the sport since I was a little girl in grade school. And for me, back then it was the A’s anyway. Now, I only do football. I’ve read about those stereotypes you mention though. Sox fans are white-collar, Cubs fans are blue-collar, etc. I’ve also read worse things about Cubs fans than I have about Sox fans. They seem to get in more trouble, for some reason.

  141. Jordan Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 2:13 am editJust a little housekeeping first. I’m not sure what my ISP address has to do with anything, but I live here in Chicago, in Ravenswood Manor, never been to — what, Mesa? Costa Mesa? I’ve lived here consistently since 1994, and before that, I only left for college and law school. Yeah, I’m a lawyer, have at it. Want to know something else? I represent the City of Chicago. (Aha! Bias revealed!)

    Your IP address is the location where your computer transmits from. Yours says both Costa Mesa, CA, and just a plain United States, because you’ve used a different computer today than you did last night, and thus show up with a different IP address.

    To your responses, and I think it’s cool that you replied by paragraph, but I still don’t get it. Not the part about not liking Chicago — I don’t like the Cubs– but the fact that you and your friends write about it like you’re in a military prison. You’re older than I am and you hate this place so much it consumes you, but you have absolutely no way of moving? What? See, this is why I still think this is an experiment or a hoax.

    It feels like a prison, often enough. And no, it doesn’t consume us.

    You’re a Pats fan, so why not move to Boston? Unless it’s too expensive to live there, or the job market there sucks. You sound like you may be from the Bay Area. San Fran and Oakland are both great cities, so why not go there? I like BART. Much better than CTA, right? So why not?

    Presumably, the reason you’re here is because you have a job. Maybe the job sucks, but it’s enough to keep you here, and if you could get the same kind of job in any other city, given how much this one sucks, you’d probably go there. So why don’t you? Are the job markets everywhere else so bad you can’t find a single job there? Anywhere? How about the place you’re from, so you don’t have to deal with the rejection of non-local candidates (which is a bizarre idea in itself — what is it that you do exactly?).

    Do you not understand the rejection of non-local candidates? Say someone sends a resume to Omaha, because they want to re-locate. Companies in Omaha will say, “No thanks, we have enough qualified people here in Omaha, we don’t need to bring people in from someplace else, or pay moving expenses, either.” Understand? You have to move to a place to get a job there, and you can’t move there until you have a job lined up. Catch-22. And have you ever tried to rent a place when you have no job? Good luck with all that.

    And when I make the point that other cities have their own equivalents of what we have here, you respond with sarcasm, but without a point. I’m not saying that we’re objectively the best city, just that the beauty of all big cities is that they have options for virtually any taste, and Chicago is no different. Other cities are great too. I love Boston, love NYC, I like Philly and Detroit. As I said above, the Bay Area is great too. They all have great stuff, and cool people who came from there, and culture and sports and everything that we have here.

    But like any great city (yeah, I said it), Chicago’s got its own idiosyncracies that you may not like. We prefer mustard on our hot dogs (although so many people use ketchup, even at Sox Park, it makes me sad). It’s basically a Democratic city (you’re a Republican), and it’s become known for political corruption, which may not suit you. So leave.

    Who does political corruption “suit”, exactly? I’ll gladly leave if you’ll give me the money to break my lease, pay a moving company, and put a down payment on an apartment someplace else. You think it’s so easy? Fine, then enable ME.

    And these idiotic generalizations! You make fun of my assertions about all good and all bad, but that’s exactly what you and your friends here are saying! You’ve devoted an entire blog to the idea that Chicago sucks, but when that idea gets thrown back at you, you make fun of it. Because you have no actual response, because you’ve been called out.

    Au contraire! I have not devoted an entire blog to the idea that Chicago sucks. What you see here is but a single post on my blog, which has nearly 400 other posts. All total, I have maybe 20 posts about Chicago, less than 5% of my blog. I have a blog dedicated to football, to my journey in faith, to my politics, even to writing, but I do not have a blog dedicated to Chicago. Also, this post was made close to a year ago, and no one here dedicates that much time to it.

    You haven’t “thrown” anything at me besides attitude, and that’s nothing new. Called out? Really, that’s laughable. The truth is, you have no response for the crime rate, the political corruption, the unemployment rate (which is higher than national average), the housing plummet, the taxes, ad nauseum. Check out my other posts, which you can find through my Anti-Chicago page at the top, and you’ll find numerous links for my reasons for thinking Chicago sucks.

    Look, maybe there’s some weird reason that you and your cohorts are physically or in some other way constrained from leaving town, going to some place that doesn’t suck as much, or even moving closer to an el stop, which you seem to think requires a magic wand. (It’s just a lease, or a contract for a condo, or whatever. People do it all the time.) But I don’t think so.

    Let’s see, there’s a penalty to break a lease, usually 2-3 months rent, plus the down-payment on another place, plus moving expenses – that’s not cheap either. Sure, I have thousands lying around. If you were really a lawyer, you’d know that.

    As to why I came back twice (now three times!), I wasn’t pissed when I saw your site, I was intrigued. I still am, which is why I’m back. I’ve honestly never heard this point of view before. At the risk of re-infuriating those of you who hate our “arrogant” attitudes, most people I talk to about Chicago love it. Many people say it’s like NYC, but less expensive and easier to get around. So I’m fascinated by this site, and especially by the suggestion that free will and mobility no longer exist, or at least not for you folks. I do love talking about cities, about their pros and cons, and comparing them. And, unlike you, I’d get bored reading and writing with only people I agree with. That’s why I’m not on I Love Chicago.com. I had never even heard of it, and frankly, it sounds a bit nauseating. I prefer your site.

    This is why I seriously doubt you’re really “a 41-year-old lawyer.” If you were, you’d have run into people LONG before now who aren’t thrilled with Chicago. And I didn’t put up this post with the intent to engage in debate. This is a private blog, NOT a public forum, and 1st Amendment rules don’t apply to anyone here, but ME. This is a safe haven for people who feel as I do, a place for us to come when we’ve had a bad day, or dealt with something irritating, a place where we know others will agree with us. It’s a place of commiseration, NOT debate. I also think you’re only here to try to pimp your website, and let this be a warning to you, come here again with your insults and attitude, and if I don’t delete your comments, I WILL delete the links to your website.

    Yeah, you all have a right to hate Chicago, and there’s no requirement that you make sense. And the rest of us have a right to say what we think as well. And I suppose a blog is the place for your brand of negative flaming (that’s a blog word, right? I had to look up ROFL). That’s what bloggers seem to do.

    Yes, we DO have that right. Sadly for you, we DO make sense. And NO, you do NOT have a right to say what you want on MY blog. Get your own blog for that. The only one doing any flaming here, is YOU, because you sought ME out, I didn’t go to your page. Going to other people’s sites and throwing insults around is flaming, and as I look around, that would be you.

    My only point is that you can get out any time, this isn’t a prison, and while economic times are tough, this isn’t 1929. All of you can leave, you’d just rather sit here and complain. It’s an odd choice, but, as I said before (and I know, you don’t need me to tell you), it’s your right. But the thought of all you people choosing (yes, choosing) to live in Chicago (again, assuming this isn’t a hoax), and hating it with this special venom is just weird.

    Again, you pay, I’m gone. I’m sure my other commenters feel the same. Funny how you think it’s so easy. A 41-year-old man would understand the difficulties of just picking up and moving at the drop of a hat. That’s something high-school and college kids tend to believe.

    p.s. I forgot to mention Gospel-Fest, Blues-Fest, Country-Fest (or whatever it’s called), Jazz-Fest, all free, in addition to the weekly street festivals that pop up pretty much every week in the summer months. And the alleys! All the garbage stored neatly in back! Love it!

    p.p.s. (or is it p.s.s.?) If you ever want to find a great place to eat without a wand or a treasure map, just say so, and I’ll give you some suggestions. I’ll bet there’s a few places right in your neighborhood! Are you in Lakeview? Try Delece on Southport. Bucktown? I like the Silver Cloud, on Wabansia. Great comfort food, and great beer selection. Or you can just go to metromix.com.

    See, you just don’t get it. You think it’s all about “doing stuff.” I didn’t mention anything about “doing stuff” in my post.

  142. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 8:26 am editJordan wrote:

    “Many people say it’s like NYC, but less expensive and easier to get around.”

    Many people who never been to New York? )
    Honestly, if someone made this statement probably never seen New York’s subway system. Maybe you should read then about the largest public transpotation system in the US and a city with the largest percentage of people without cars. By the way, what are the similarities between Chicago and New York? The sky is also blue and there are some skyscrapers? ) Because this is where it ends.

    PS. Did you ever wonder if Paris, Tokyo and London have alleys or they are secretely envying Chicago, too? ) )

  143. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 8:49 am editdarcst wrote:

    “It cracks me up that they say we’re in a race with NY for homicides. What they completely neglected to mention is that NY has 4 times as many people as Chicago. They then go on to say that Chicago’s murder rate is among “the lowest in decades” after sneaking in the fact that it’s actually up 17% over last year. But it’s among the lowest rates in decades, don’t forget! The double-speak here is pathetic and sickening. ”

    Yes, it seems that the local government in Chicago is actually betting on the fact that Chicagoans lack analytical skills and can’t do simple math. Illinois and Chicago are now the lughinstock of the nation but the people deserve it for being such a mindless bunch of sheeps.

    They know the majority of Chicagoans won’t do anything about it, and if any positive spin can be put on a thing, Chicagoans will cling to it to the death, even if it’s not true.

  144. Bill Savage Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 10:00 am editThis is a fascinating conversation. Until Jordan joined, no dissenting voices, and only a handful of people joining in the Chicago hate-fest. I can only second Jordan: any big city has corruption, traffic woes, other problems–but anyone who thinks Chicago is a sinkhole of suckitude really needs to either do some real comparison shopping or check back into the reality store for a jumbo carton of reality.

    Easier to get around in than New York? Not than Manhattan, perhaps, but easier to drive in. I love New York, too. Hate LA, especially Costa Mesa. Anyplace you HAVE to have a car to live is worse than Chicago. That covers most of the nation south of Chicago and west of the Mississippi River, the SF/Oakland Bay area excepted. Live near an El station, have a bike for nice weather, and you’re set without the expense of an automobile.

    Anyone who thinks Chicago’s theatre and academic scenes are second rate is just deluded. Again, New York is as good or better, Boston is as good academically but has very little theatre, SF/Oakland is a match. LA has the universities, but not the small theatre (they’re distracted by TV and movies and the climate).

    Good restaurants hard to find? Only if you’re blind and being led around by a noseless guide dog.

    Anyway, it’s nice to hear the other side of the usual Chicago praise, if only for the momentary diversion.

    Well, Mr. Bill-possibly-Jordan, you’re a little late to the party. The comments you see here are but a fraction of the total. The comment thread was getting so huge that I had to transfer them to their own page. And as I said at the top, this isn’t a place for dissent. I AM the dissent to the typical “rah-rah Chicago” pablum we’ve been spoon-fed for ages.

    Comparison shopping? Just an FYI, I’m not a native Chicagoan. I’ve lived on both coasts, and traveled a great deal in between. Many others who comment here have as well. Believe me, we’ve shopped, probably far more than you have.

  145. timmay Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 2:03 pm edit#1. Bill Savage IS.. Jordan. Nice try though.
    #2 To Mr. Bill Savage Jordan,
    defending Chicago on a web board dedicated to hating this pathetic city? Why? Go to a Chicago Lovefest Board and paint your inaccurate pictures of this grey and self serving dump.
    #3. You said Chicago has the most vibrant theatre scene in the country. Do you live in a closet in Chicago , and all they give you is a Tribune to read? Chiago HAS theatre. But off-Loop is a JOKE. Not even considered as good as places like Minneapolis, let alone New York. You are brainwashed.
    #4. The rest of the sports world thinks Chicago is a joke. Any metropolis with the time line and all the advantages of a Chicago should have FAR more championships than it does. So where do they rank on the championship index? No better than many small market teams.

    I know! Why do they do a search for Chicago sucks, and then feel the need for “rebuttal” when they find what they’re looking for? I don’t get it. And then they proceed to argue with me, when I say at the very beginning of the post – politely, too – to please not do that? Is that rude or what?

  146. timmay Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 2:15 pm edit‘Good restaurants hard to find? Only if you’re blind and being led around by a noseless guide dog’

    Let’s get real. The Chicago restaurant scene is far overrated and has changed for the worse in recent years. Privately owned fine dining is being replaced all over by the chain. And the sad thing is that Chicagoans PACK these uninspired cookie cutter places.
    It is a culture of CRAP food. Whenever people from outside of the Chicago bias spectrum review a restaurant in Chicago, it’s the same complaints…”too greasy” or “too heavy” or “not warm enough” Apparently temperature of food isn’t important to chefs and servers in Chicago. Then again, the food probably gets cold on the way to the table. It is 5 degrees there right now. Ancorage Alaska is warmer on average lately.

    I know when I think haute cuisine, Chicago’s right at the top of MY list. Bwahahahaha! Sorry, couldn’t resist. ;) Seriously, do they really think places like Paris and Milan, New York, San Francisco, even New Orleans, are jealous over pizza and hot dogs? C’mon!

  147. Viennaheffer Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 2:36 pm editMr. Bill Savage Jordan said “and only a handful of people joining in the Chicago hate-fest”

    Not by a long shot. Just do a google search on ‘Chicago sucks’ and you will see FARRRRR more than a handful. I believe there are a few sites dedicated to how overrated and crappy the REAL Chicago is. This might explain why the population of the city and Cook County is falling.

    There are roughly 8 million hits on Google when you do a search for Chicago sucks. About half that when you search on Detroit sucks. By Chicago standards, 8M is a handful, and definitely in the minority.

  148. Viennaheffer Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 2:57 pm editOk, ok. Sorry. I’m really timmay… not viennaheffer. I guess I figured if Mr. Bill Savage (Jordan) gets to be a split personality, well…. )
    By the way, did anyone mention the awesome FLOODING that occurs here in Chicago? It’s so darn charming and just another one of the many “benefits” of living here.

    Thanks for “fessing up”! Not sure if those 2 are the same person, though. The IP’s are different.

    I guess we’ve made national news about the flooding. Blago and the flood … somebody ought to write a song. ;)

  149. franktown Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 3:23 pm editJordan,

    I’m sorry to say that the only pro-Chicagoan they tolerate is me. My suggestion is don’t argue here. Nothing anyone who loves the city says will change their mind.

    But, I have to say that you sound very much like me when I entered the board. But Ness (who’s now a friend) made me realize that it is HER website and she has the right to kick anyone off that pisses her off. So if you must say things to defend the city, be nice. Behind the harsh words of the people who post here are fun conversations and arguments that you can benefit from.

    Keep on loving Chicago, and come over here more often, but back off and find another place to do it! This is an anti-Chicago site (but Lost is trying to hijack it and make it a pro-Manhattan site, hehe ) )

    So, anyway, I’m sitting on my friends porch right now watching the rain tumble down in 60 degree weather. I have gym shorts and a t-shirt on, and it’s never felt so good!! Damn, I hope the city doesn’t flood to badly.

    You’re a doll, Frank, and I thank you. ) No, our minds can’t be “changed” because our opinions are based not only on the facts (i.e. the crime rate) but on our experiences, and you simply can’t undo what’s been done.

    I’m glad you think the conversations can be fun and beneficial. I know I enjoy them. D Your support means a lot to me. Hope you had a great Christmas! Are you in town for the holiday?

  150. You Gotta Be Kiddin’ Me « DarcKnyt Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 4:13 pm edit[…] she posted about it.  And it’s become quite a popular post for her.  Her most popular topics, in […]
  151. BoloGal Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 4:16 pm editDear Jordan,

    “You people are flat-out ridiculous”.

    Your opening line, an insult, could not have been more stereotypical of the rudeness that we all speak of, and whine about. Truly, we don’t need more evidence of this…but, I must say it continues to amaze me, every time, seeing Chicagoans market themselves at friendly while spewing insults in the same breath.
    Yes, we’re whiners and looooove to be able to express our temporary frustrations with other whiners. It beats the hell out a commute across a garish, congested town to reach the grease holes, wholeheartedly recommended by you, for fine dining. (Thank you, but we’ll rather continue with what’s in the fridge, or we’ll swing by local Wfds) and enjoy our cabin fever, watching movies, counting days to the next flight out. (Some of us took off, and could not be dragged back to live here again.)

    “What a bizarre conversation you all are having! How much time you people spend writing (and hopelessly generalizing and stereotyping) about how much you hate the place where you nonetheless, continue to live!”

    Not much time at all, but pls remember, some of us suffer from a cabin fever while here, so writing comes easy…See, we prefer the cabin fever to experiencing the town more than necessary (commute from O’Hare or Midway), so we have a minute or two to drop by and see how many more outsiders (of different cultures, backgrounds, and whom we’ve never met, have share our observations so exactly!)

    “Attempting to classify a city as large and impossibly complex as Chicago as “bad” or “good” is a ridiculous endeavor”.

    What exactly was submitting your assessment of the ‘greatness’ of this city then? If the endeavor is ridiculous, why engage in it? Since you mention you’re a lawyer, I will presume your academic skills allow to process the definition of hypocrisy…Pls, look up the term and give it thought.

    “There are so many things here to criticize, as there are to enjoy and celebrate. This is no different than any other large metropolis”. Yes, it is different. That difference, whatever it is to you, is what keeps you put here and not elsewhere. That difference may also be what makes us miserable here.

    “The question of whether Chicago’s citizens are friendly or unfriendly is also hopelessly futile.”

    Do us a favor then, would you? Pls communicate to your fellow Chicagoans to STOP SELLING THEMSELVES AS FRIENDLY. They HOG THAT LABEL, completely without merit. It is really very dirty of them. If, by your opinion, it is hopeless to classify dwellers of a particular city as friendly or not, please do what you can to get them to stop doing just that.

    “But to say that our experiences, especially the negative ones, are directly related to the city we’re in, and assign a supposedly objective quality to the city is just absurd”.

    Your statement is shallow, and reveals how limited your observations of human experiences must be. I am UNCOMPARABLY more energetic, and full of life in SF that I am here. The apathy is almost instant…it’s the ‘Oh, my…1hr 30 min of traffic, or trains, or buses, or waiting 30 min for taxi to drop you off to your destination $65 later…and I know it is my time for 2 weeks indoors (I am not an indoor type). Chicago is the best ‘indoor city’ in know of.

    “Having said that, and at the risk that this is merely an experiment in gauging peoples’ reaction to the insane notion that a city’s residents are either friendly or unfriendly, that a given city either sucks or rocks, I will nonetheless offer the following rebuttal, not in the hopes that it will change your mind, but just because this place is so f-in’ awesome:”

    Again, you’ve stated that the endeavor of labeling a city as ‘good or ‘bad’ was a ridiculous one (“Attempting to classify a city as large and impossibly complex as Chicago as “bad” or “good” is a ridiculous endeavor”)…hmm…counselor, perhaps a course on rational thought might be of help? (De Paul has offers some).

    “Culture? The most vibrant theater scene in the country.” Ever heard of NYC? No? Please look up New York City, while you’re researching ‘hypocrisy.’ Oh, what the hell, look up ‘Las Vegas’ too, under unrivaled live entertainment and # of theaters.

    On any given night, there are plays being staged all over the city that will rock your world. Musicals, dance numbers, literary gems, new productions, what have you. Steppenwolf’s production of “August Osage County” is a ridiculous hit on Broadway, Goodman, and and hundreds of spectacular off-Loop playhouses, the birthplace of modern architecture, crucial roles in the development of jazz and the blues (and thus rock and roll), the Art Institute, Museum of Contemporary Photography, etc., Lyric Opera, Old Town School of Folk Music, and it goes on”.

    True. Too bad it takes almost 2hrs of commute/parking to get there…and then it sucks just as bad traveling back. 2 hrs of entertainment, 4 hrs of total commute. Yay. Just stab me with a spoon…

    “Comedy? Most of the people we love on TV got their start at Second City and Improv Olympic: Tina Fey and Stephen Colbert to name just two”.

    And then they all ran for the hills for REAL OPPORUNITUES of course….

    “But a bunch of funny people came from NYC, and Denis Leary and Stephen Wright are from Boston, so feel free to live there!”

    (Jordan, buddy, read a few more post here and you will discover us making fun of the standard Chicagoan response: it called ‘get the f…out.’ So, so standard…every single one of us has heard it more times than a Wrigley sportsfan can belch during a double header.)

    Music? Wilco, Smashing pumpkins, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Lyric Opera….”

    “The best sports town in America, especially given the relative futility of its teams.”

    Yes. The best. Absolutely….keep telling yourself that because Chicagoans are not a laughing stock big enough already. I was advised in CA recently to just start saying I’m from IL, rather than admitting I’m from Chicago….

    “A healthy academic climate, with the Univ. of Chicago, Northwestern, UIC, Depaul, and many others.”

    Chicago Public Schools, for decades now, continues to score below national average in… everything…CPS is legendary for being not much beyond a daytime juvenile detention center with one of the absolute lowest reading, math scores, hs and college graduation rates…How can you live here and NOT KNOW THAT? SERIOUSLY, WTF? Pull your head out of the sand! The situation is grim in that respect-how can you be blind to that? You must be a victim of CPS-that’s an only explanation.

    “Tremendous, unmatched recreation, including Millenium Park and 26 miles of public lakefront.”

    Millenium Park and a concrete beach? What do you do the next day? Other than get drunk, of course? Oh, get a hot dog! Of course (yes, I did slap my forehead)…

    The politics may be dirty (they often are), but don’t fool yourself into thinking that any other city is much better.”

    They are dirty EVERYWHERE? Really? Thanks for enlightening us… however, it’s quite simple to make an assessment that things are worse in the (oh, so cosmopolitan Chicago) than standard…briefly: fool the public once, shame on you, fool the public 4 times (as in 4 PROSECUTED governors), shame on the public…the rotten politicians know what this public will let them get away with (everything), and they feel free to rob in broad daylight…In the mean time, too busy digesting pepperoni, the oblivious to everything Chicagoans, revel in their daily commute, cause that’s what they live for after all (that, and shopping, beer and Dunkin’ Doughnuts).

    “Plus, we did produce the president-elect.”

    President was an ADULT when he moved here…you did not produce him, but rather, and merely, gave him a political platform.

    Food? You hate the Taste of Chicago? Don’t go!! How is it that the Taste, which is optional for any Chicagoan or tourist, is something that makes your life here so miserable? Don’t go!! “

    Good advice…and already taken many moons ago. Works really well.

    “Too many frat guys in Wrigleyville, too many thugs in the clubs, too many whatevers in wherever? Go somewhere else! Try Buona Terra in Logan Square, try Ignotz on heart of Chicago, over at 24th & Oakley. Try any place on 18th Street in Pilsen. Try Hot Doug’s in Roscoe Village. Try some German food in Lincoln Square. There are a zillion neighborhoods here, with all sorts of people and things to do.”

    See, the trouble is, to take your advice I’d have to do one of 3 things:

    1. Drive (crappy experience at almost any time of day or week), and then try to park, of course…the process makes me lose any excitement about the food, or any other experience I aimed at while transporting myself across the gray, brown, full of potholes, devoid of trees homeliness…the drive, all too often, feels like a parking lot, not a road.

    2. Take a taxi. Expensive. $20 from LPark to Loop. Less than 4 miles. I never paid more that $16 in SF and that was cross-town…

    3. Take the L or the bus…travel of 7 miles (say, from Loyola to S Loop) takes about ONE hour ‘oh, it not so bad’ (says any Chicagoan). That’s 7 miles in 60 min. Travel was faster before the Industrial Revolution…Must have been.

    Look, I know this isn’t new, but it bears repeating. Endlessly. There’s a reason you’re still here, despite that you think it sucks. Either you’re hopelessly conflicted, or you’re addicted to misery. Because, while a city can facilitate a good time, it can’t make you happy or sad, and a city as large as Chicago can never be all good or all bad. I’ve lived here most of my 41 years, and lived elsewhere for a few years here and there, and I love it here. But my family and most of my friends are here, so that’s a big part of it. I’ve met great people here and bloodless suckwads also. There are MILLIONS of people, they can’t be all friendly or all jerks. There’s crime and there are heroes, there are corrupt police officers and police officers who save little kids from burning buildings when their parents are out on the town. Just like any big city.

    “The ridiculous generalizations on this site are only exceeded by the simplistically idiotic idea that a city this size can be labeled qualitatively good or bad.”

    Jordan: seriously, stop contradicting yourself. It’s childish, and you’re 41.

    “Grow up, kids.”
    I think I’m done for today…

    BoloGal, you ROCK! That was awesome! D

  152. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 27, 2008 at 7:35 pm editBoloGal, ditto and nice job.

    It’s unbelievable how absurd and infantile are typical responses to any criticism of Chicago: “you don’t like it get the f… out” (which means if you live in Chicago you MUST love everything about the city) or “all big cities are like this” (which means: you do not have to improve anything).
    The other funny but annoying trend is to make pompous, overinflated statements not supported by any or just by anecdotal evidence. “Most vibrant theatrical life”, “most poeple we love on TV”, “friendliest people”, “great sports town”, “best food” “great music” “healthy academic life” etc. etc. How about quoting some independent reviews confirming superiority of Chicago’s food, theater, sports or people’s attitudes? Nope. It never happens but we all we know Chicago has the highest crime of all three big cities, highest sales tax, terrible sport teams and recently became a laughinstock of the country because of rampant corruption. Do we need more?

    Apparently, reality is not enough. Sounds like a Jacqueline Susann book, doesn’t it?

  153. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 1:33 am edittimmay said: . The art museums are even borderline TACKY. That’s right. Check them yourself and if you think they are exquisite, then you are a rube

    art is subjective. so your statement is merely a matter of (your ) opinion…. that’s all i have to say on that.

  154. christel runyan Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 7:50 am editchicago has entertainment….let’s go see the blue man group for the 543,987 th time P
  155. christel runyan Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 7:51 am editI love waking up in the morning to the smell of…an al capone kinda feeling P

    Oh, that’s what they ALL say. ;)

  156. tomvee Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 9:54 am editChiNy girl said- ‘art is subjective. so your statement is merely a matter of (your ) opinion…. that’s all i have to say on that’

    An example for you then. The Museum of Contemporary Art in Chicago. What a dissapointment. OF COURSE art is subjective. But artists and fans of art can recognize the level of talent and quality when they see it. Having been there three separate times, and noticing no improvement in the quality of displays, why would I return?? I’ve literally seen high school art displays that are better. No. Really. Just another way the city is kidding itself. As far as the comments of the lawyer (jordan) who posted here…I am a Maintenance Supervisor here in Chicago. I’ve lived and worked here for 39 years and I used to love it. But I getting sick of it OK? I suppose as a lawyer, you can afford all the hidden costs in this city–the parking, the L, the high sales tax, the fees, the overpriced event tickets, the restaurants that overcharge for decent, but not spectacular, food. To the average joe, Chicago used to be a great place to live. Now it is a RIP OFF. It is the DirectTV of cities–alot of hidden fees and all anyone gets out of it is a poorly run city full of aggravation at every turn. Didn’t used to be this way. All I’m saying is that I can see why there is a site like this. The negatives are starting to far outweigh the positives in this city. I thik it started when they put a spaceship inside of Soldier Field. LAME!

    “The negatives are starting to far outweigh the positives in this city.” In a nutshell, Tom, in a nutshell. I think that’s one of the things that’s bothered me most, the decline that’s not that gradual. It almost feels like a freefall somehow, and I’m not sure why.

  157. tomvee Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 10:11 am editI just read BoloGal’s post. Spot on girl. Spot on! I don’t think anyone will argue there are things to do in Chicago. It’s a huge city with something always going (except on Sundays) But the main complaints here involve the way of life. Noone should have to pay over $20 to take a cab across town, or take a crowded L train to within 5 city blocks of your destination and then have to walk in the sub zero temps. This is not ‘greatness’ This is stupidity. I like what George Carlin says about the Midwest: why would you want to live in a place where you can potentially FREEZE to death on the way to your mailbox?!
  158. tomvee Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 10:21 am edit‘I love waking up in the morning to the smell of…an al capone kinda feeling ‘

    I will assume you are kidding. That is another thing I never understood about Chicago. Why do modern Chicagoans glorify its criminal past? Al Capone had hundreds of people killed, and many of them were NOT fellow criminals. All in the name of making money and keeping people drunk on dangerous home made gin.
    I’m surprised there is not a Chicago crime museum with a full John Wayne Gacey exhibit. Let’s romanticize the mob. But why not? It’s the “Chicago Way” You don’t see other cities glorifying their infamous criminals. Just Chicago.

    Ooh, this is one of my biggest beefs! What is UP with people practically canonizing Capone, and the criminal and corruption elements here? What is that something to be proud of? Why are they not ashamed?

  159. christel runyan Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 10:37 am editIts a joke ,,, i am being ruthless and punning it is called being facetious… I hate chicago
  160. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 5:03 pm editFrom time to time it gets to me, so here we go, my own “deja vu all over again”.
    Store on Mag Mile, a lady in her forties walks into the store and just let the door close without looking, hitting me and my kid… What the h…l? Does is it really hurt to look over your shoulder and hold the door for the next person? Inside the store, when you are in someone’s way people just push “through you” even avoiding eye contact.. Can’t they say “excuse me”? What’s wrong with this place? This self proclaimed capital of friendliness and nicety could use some urban manners refresher… I can’t believe how rude this “friendliest city in the US” really is…
    I am over 6 feet, 205 lbs, I can deal with the guys but what am I supposed to do with rude ladies???

    I know what you mean, Lost! Every time when I’ve been pregnant, someone has let the door close on my out-to-here baby-tummy. One time a young man actually did hold the door for me, and I was so shocked and startled I almost cried at his kindness.

  161. Bill Savage Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 6:48 pm editUh, no I’m not Jordan, though he did hip me to this conversation. Check my email account. And check out the following:



    Just so you know, that wasn’t me holding your comment back. WP automatically does that when there are a certain number of links in the comment, because it might be spam.

    I pretty much figured there was a connection between you and Jordan. While I’m not so naive to believe that a link constitutes “proof of identity,” the vpn location that comes through with your comment notification tells me you’re either who you say you are, or a colleague. I sincerely doubt a colleague would go to the trouble. I appreciate the effort you went to, to make sure everyone knows you’re not masquerading as Jordan. Thank you.

  162. tomvee Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 6:54 pm editHaha. Don’t sweat the small stuff man. But I know, the inconsiderate attitudes do get to you after a while. There really are some dumb people floating around this city. Many of them glom on to Chicago (a place where pretty much ANYONE could choose to live if they wanted) and protect its image at all costs, as if they built the place with their own two hands. These nutjobs do not want to admit how uncouth and backwards things are around them, or that things could be vastly improved.
    They get upset if you put the city down in some way. Chicagoans should just admit that Chicago has gotten suckier over the years and work on voting these crooks out of office. But instead they are busy demonstrating their ignorance by claiming their supposed “superiority” over the Cincinnattis and Nashvilles of the world. What a joke. Chicago cannot even be civil to its neighbors in Indiana, Missouri, and Wisconsin. What makes you think they will be civil to anyone else?

    Exactly! The corruption could be voted out, if only the people would do that. Instead, they sit around complaining but vote the same idiots back in office! And they won’t even vote for term limits, so they can keep the same people in office for years and years and years and years … blechDaleyblech.

  163. christel runyan Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 7:57 pm editmaybe they should re word it the magnificent vile?

    ..just sayin’ !

    Oh, I laughed out loud when I saw this one! D

  164. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 8:35 pm editJust so everyone knows, I am from Brooklyn but I do not beat people up over slammed doors. Usually friendly “watch it, pal” is enough. In New York however you can expect “I am sorry” in response, in Chicago all you get is a surprised and offended look. Like you can’t expect people to act in a civilized way. Yeah, Chicago is rude and the attitudes here suck. There are nice places other then New York, I like Florida for its laid back attitude, North Carolina for real friendliness but because of its arrogance, rudeness and pretentiousness I just can’t stand Chicago at all…

    I get the same kind of rudeness at the grocery store. They see I have a cart so they step out in front of me, and expect me to go around them, when they don’t have a cart. Even when I say, “Excuse me,” they still won’t move, they just give me a dirty look. Sigh.
  165. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 9:39 pm editlost in chicago said:…but because of its arrogance, rudeness and pretentiousness I just can’t stand Chicago at all…

    REALLY?i had no idea..lol

    No, none of us did! ;)

  166. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 28, 2008 at 10:13 pm editChiNy

    Really. It gets on my nerves. Why? Read Jordan’s post above. His defense of Chicago, the arguments he uses and the way he uses them are exactly the reason I feel this way.
    By the way, did anyone ever tell you to “get the f… out” when you mentioned you did not like New York or some aspect of it?

    The thing that gets me, is the “defense” they all want to make – they seem to think we’ve never heard any of it before, and that just because they said it, we’ll suddenly say, “Oh my GOSH! I had no IDEA Chicago was so WONDERFUL! THANK you for opening my eyes!” You know, because we’re all sTOOpid like that. I didn’t know Chicago had bars, did you know Chicago had bars? And a BEAN! A shiny BEAN! Really, I had no idea! ;)

  167. tomvee Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 12:01 am editChicago sucks. End of story. There are plenty of small cities in America that are far less ghetto than Chicago! If I want to visit their museums or restaurants in Chicago, I do not need to live in that shithole. I take a plane or train. People cluster themselves there to make more money? For what? so that they can have it taken by Crook County? What a vicious cycle.
  168. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 1:56 am edittomvee,

    I suspect people in Chicago got together to seek company in their misery. It is not a city where you’ll find urban joy de vivre: people being happy just because of proximity to other people. On the contrary, Chicagoans try to get away from each other as much as they can: they avoid eye contact at all cost, drive cars in excruciating traffic rather than using public transportation and generally act awkward and confused in most social interactions. I have never heard so many superficial conversations: Bears, Cubs, Obama, money. Nothing more. Chicago seems to be full of people who would rather be living elsewhere but compensate this by praising the city as much and often as they can, hoping that some day they start to like it, too… In the meantime, however, they spend most of their time talking on cell phones even in company of other people, sitting alone in their cars and barbecuing in their backyards, pretending this is their “big city experience”…

  169. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 6:57 am editlost in chicago said: By the way, did anyone ever tell you to “get the f… out” when you mentioned you did not like New York or some aspect of it?

    no, ’cause i don’t recall ever saying that i didn’t like New York. there are some aspects of the city i dont care for (i wont go into them after all, this is a site devoted to why chicago sucks).

    unlike the retards who make cliched assumptions on NY who have never been or lived there- i have (hence my screen name) so i kinda have an informed opinion.

  170. tomvee Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 12:02 pm editI honestly found New Yorkers and east coast people in general to be much friendlier than those from Chicago or LA. This is a common media deception. Perhaps it was due to 9/11? But nowhere in the country was I treated more like a PERSON, than in New York and Philidelphia. People at every turn were extremely helpful, polite, but not FAKE, you know? They still had the New York edge, but they were genuine. Chicagoans have ego trip problems.
  171. DarcsFalcon Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 1:22 pm editJust an FYI for you guys here, I did another Chicago post. You can click here https://darcsfalcon.wordpress.com/2008/12/29/chicago-withdrawal/
  172. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 2:07 pm editChiNy

    My point is that New Yorkers are not afraid to voice their opinion and complain about the traffic, subway, taxes etc etc. New York is not a cult experience: you don’t have to “love it all”. It’s not only healthy as it proves people don’t live in total denial but also puts some pressure on the government to improve things. That’s one of the reasons why this 20M metro area functions that well despite it size. On the other hand you are not supposed to complain about anything in Chicago,” it’s all perfect and we are just happy to be here” but in the same time people are high strung, passive-aggressive walking miseries, straying away from each other. I can’t stand this mentality of denial and complacency. In what other city people would proudly say that it was built on corruption or proudly wear jerseys of a team that never wins? There is a fine line between loyalty and pride and cult like lack of criticism and in my opinion Chicago crossed that line long time ago.

  173. SuburbanMike Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 4:07 pm editI grew up in the western suburbs and I have to agree with a lot of the criticism here. The undercurrent of insecurity people talk about is, in my experience, very real. The weird, tough-guy, “I talk like a gangster from the 1940’s” attitude always seemed to be an expression of that insecurity. Like the town’s creepy brand of racism, it’s more obvious after they down a few drinks.

    Chicago and it’s suburbs seem to know they do everything the right way, despite any evidence to the contrary. That’s a pretty good way of never making any real progress.

    Welcome to the club, Mike. ) I like how you summed it up – “they know they do everything right, and that’s no way to make real progress.” So true, what else is there to improve on, if everything’s perfect already? I think that’s what makes me sad about this place. There’s almost no hope for improvement.

  174. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 4:32 pm editlost in chicago said: I can’t stand this mentality of denial and complacency. In what other city people would proudly say that it was built on corruption or proudly wear jerseys of a team that never wins? There is a fine line between loyalty and pride and cult like lack of criticism and in my opinion Chicago crossed that line long time ago.

    yeah, that’s probably why blago feels like he will be in office to serve the rest of his term, he knows that chicagoans won’t do anything about it.

    i own a jordan jersey which i wear every now and then …do the Bulls count as a team that never wins?

  175. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 4:49 pm edit..scratch that, i know the Bulls suck thay haven’t won anything for a decade.

    The Bulls were nothing without MJ.

  176. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 6:05 pm editSuburban Mike,

    Yup. Ever since I moved to Chicago I feel like I am on a movie set. These you have 30-40 something guys wearing club jerseys, talking and acting like they were still on the team. It’s been 20 years since they played, they grew bellies and lost some hair but they still want the world to believe they got what it takes.
    Then you have 40-something biker’s with beards, tattoos, 401-K’s and savings accounts plans. Really scary and tough. Even women are playing tough in Chicago. What is everyone so scared of here?

  177. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 6:50 pm editchiny

    I think you missed the point. In any normal place people would either change the team they root for or put some pressure on the owners to improve team’s perfomance but not put up signs and proudly wear team’s jerseys. This crazy Chicago attitude of unconditional love and support backfires with mediocre performance in every conceivable area. What is wrong with this town??? Doesn’t it learn anything???

    PS. Bulls are OK, I can see why you could be proud and supportive of that team but there aren’t that many Bulls jerseys around, are there?

  178. franktown Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 6:56 pm editNeh, those “superficial” conversations are just to get the ball rolling. What else are guys supposed to talk about? Frickin’ broadway shows and art galleries?

    Forgeettaboutit, I will never stop being a fan of DA BEARS…. or The Cubs….. The whole team might as well evaporate if there aren’t enough fans to back it up.

    I still can’t get over the BS you keep ranting about people in Manhattan being so “friendly” in comparison to Chicago. If everyone in the country EXCEPT people in Manhattan complain about the rudeness and stuck up levels of it’s residents, than certainly it must be the people in Manhattan that have a problem.

  179. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 7:55 pm editfrank,

    You will never get over anything. You were raised on stereotypes and media induced impressions. To change that you would have to start thinking by yourself instead of repeating old cliches. For starters stop writing things like “everyone in the country” without providing some survey data based on a representative sample. Unless of course you talked to everyone in the country who have been to New York…

    Topics of conversation? Well, just look at Chicago Tribune and New York Times: different topics, different horizons.

    As far as rooting for Da Bears or Cubs… Well, if you really want to be associated with loosers… Be my guest.

  180. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 8:18 pm editfrank,

    Just read this article: http://americancity.org/daily/entry/219/
    including comments left by readers, like this one:

    “Simmons Buntin in Tucson, AZ
    Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 1:45pm

    Thanks for the comments, Dave. What really surprised me is that people walking on the streets, when they saw us looking at the map and looking a bit bewildered, I suppose, stopped to offer advice. This happened many times; so many that it was a trend rather, I think, than a random occurence. I don’t recall any other city I’ve been in where that friendliness came across so regularly. ”

    Think, Frank, think. Redeye does not provide all the answers )

  181. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 8:42 pm editfrank,

    One more, Reader’s Digest conducted a series of tests around the world from Aucland NZ to Zagreb YU and… New York came as number 1! I am not surprised, however the things they tested were: holding doors for people, dropping papers to see if people will help gather them and waiting for a thank you from a sales clerk.
    Interestingly these are the same things that annoy me in Chicago. No common courtesy and no friendliness here in this self-proclaimed “capitol of friendliness”.

    Entire article:

    I am done doing homework for you frank, nest time just check your facts before you type anything absurd.

  182. franktown Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 10:09 pm editI’m just going off my personal experience. And other peoples. When I went to New York only one or two out of tons of people I asked actually helped me with directions.

    New Yorkers and everyone who visits Chicago tells me how remarkably friendly the city was to them. When I told many people my experience in New York, they agreed with me on the rudeness of the people in the city.

    I guess there are different definitions of “friendly” between people in the Midwest and the Northeast.

    My aunt just moved to Queens with her family for a job and said she gets shocked looks from neighbors for simply saying hi. In Chicago, I went up to my neighbors when I rented my house this summer and immediately introduced myself to them. Not only did all them extend themselves to me, they invited me to their Cubs bashes they were going to have. In Queens they won’t even look at my Aunt.

    And regarding sports…. at least Wrigley Field and Chamisky Park have loyal fans packed in the stadium rather than it being half filled with Sex and the City gals in pink who were dragged by their boyfriends for a little Sunday rush.

    I can only say that I did not have positive NY experiences when I lived in NY. I know it was a long time ago, I know I’m much older now, I know NY’s “place in the world” and don’t have a problem with that. Fashion central, financial central, theater central, all that. Fine. But personally, you couldn’t pay me to live there.

  183. franktown Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 10:12 pm editI don’t know why I’m letting you get me so worked up.

    Let’s forget about it, share a stuffed spinach pizza, and get drunk!

    Chicago style!

    I provide the alcohol! I don’t trust your judgement…..;)

    Will you put ham and mushrooms on that? And can I have some Arbor Mist, please? Don’t mock me for my wimpy alcohol! For all I am Irish/German, I am not a drinker! P

  184. franktown Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 10:29 pm editIrish/German and not a drinker?????

    What, and your family didn’t stop talking to you when you broke the news to them????

    Actually, my family weren’t drinkers either. I know, I should be a lush, but I’m not. And I haven’t spoken to my family in years, but not because of that.

  185. franktown Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 10:48 pm editLoL.

    Lost. Let’s be real here. New York IS friendly. How can I love a city but hate the people? New Yorkers are….New Yorkers.

    But Chicagoans are…. Chicagoans. Different interpretations of friendliness, different manners, different dress, etc.

    Both cities have their share of assholes, but both cities, to me, have their share of quircky, down to earth individuals.

    If you still feel there’s not one bright, down to earth soul in Chicago, well…. you always got me. )

    Yes, we’ve always got you. ;)

    BUT, I have to say, different interpretations of friendliness? C’mon! How can you have different interpretations for something like that? A person either is friendly, or is not. They either are amicable, or they are not. Letting the door slam on people, or refusing to say “excuse me” or “thank you” is not friendly, and just because the majority of Chicagoans want to “call” it friendly doesn’t mean it IS friendly.

  186. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 3:26 am editlost in chicago said:I think you missed the point. In any normal place people would either change the team they root for or put some pressure on the owners to improve team’s perfomance but not put up signs and proudly wear team’s jerseys. This crazy Chicago attitude of unconditional love and support backfires with mediocre performance in every conceivable area.

    naw i didn’t miss your point. i stated earlier that i no longer root for the cubs (you do dumb thing when your young,lol). what is there to root for, they suck a**.

    on the other hand having unconditional support for a team that’s not always good is okay. teams have up and down years-you can’t be great all the time (think of the boston red sox or the celtics, they sucked for a while before they became good). but with the cubs not winning anything for over a century, not a decade, not 50 years …A CENTURY!!!, i can’t fathom why any rational person would support crap like that. then again cubs fans aren’t rational.

  187. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 3:41 am editfranktown said: And regarding sports…. at least Wrigley Field and Chamisky Park have loyal fans packed in the stadium rather than it being half filled with Sex and the City gals in pink who were dragged by their boyfriends for a little Sunday rush.

    um, what? for the most part, wrigley field is packed full of drunks, people not paying attention to the game etc,etc.

  188. vacillating ChiNy girl Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 3:51 am editwhen i grew up in NY, i knew all my neighbors on our floor. since living in CHI, and having lived in several apartment buildings, i rarely, if ever knew any of my neighbors. if i knew them by name it was because they came to knock on our door to tell me and my siblings to keep the noise down (my brothers roughhoused alot).
  189. tomvee Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 8:51 am editfranktown said “If everyone in the country EXCEPT people in Manhattan complain about the rudeness and stuck up levels of it’s residents, than certainly it must be the people in Manhattan that have a problem”

    Actually it was me, not lost, who said that I was pleasantly surprised to find that New Yorkers were extremely friendly. Not how Hollywood brainwashes the rest of America. Two years ago we took a trip out east. I wore my Cleveland Indians shirt and Indians cap while we venture inot New York from Jersey. So basically, I was the enemy. We stayed for three nights (which was all we could afford!) everyone on the train, everyone on the street, everyone in Central Park, everyone in the clubs and restaurants, and hotel, were MORE than pleasant. We even had an older Jewish couple approach us near central park and offer up some suggestions of good places to eat that were cheap. The guy ran up to his apartment to get a map for us and let us keep the map! I do not see that happening in Chicago. Do you?

  190. franktown Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 11:30 am editYeah, I do see that happening in Chicago. I see people helping tourists and giving directions and suggestions all the time. Maybe that’s because during my breaks I spend the summer downtown all the time.

    I sure am helpful towards people I don’t know.

    I have no doubt you’re one of the friendly ones. Remember though, Frank, you’re not a native Chicagoan. I try to be friendly, too and I’m not originally from here either. I do think we were raised differently, and I think there’s a difference between the native born and the re-locaters.

  191. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 11:46 am editchiny,

    When I moved to Chicago I immediately started saying high to my neighboors (condo complex) and was stunned by strange looks they were giving me… After a while I realized they only say hello if I say it first so… I stopped. Now, after three years they finally recognize me and are kind of friendly but I still don’t get why it was such a problem for them to say hello to a neighboor, even one they do not know well. It’s a common courtesy, that’s all.

    My dislike of Cubs’ fans was just an example. Unconditional love is great, but even with your kids you have to demand some perfromance in return. If there is no perfromance, grades are failing etc etc you have to acknowledge the problem and take corrective action putting your love aside. My theory is that people are afraid to demand performance because they are afraid it will be demanded from them. As a result Chicago is the capital of mediocricy. Can anyone name one area in which Chicago excells nationally (besides CSO of course)?

  192. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 12:05 pm editfrank,

    No you don’t. When I moved to Chicago I was constantly asking for direction and was again stunned to see people being actually scared when approached…. Chicago is generally scared, people avoid eye contact with strangers etc, I’ve read somehwere that this is because of the homeless problem, but I think this is typical Chicago reserve and lack of basic social skills. No. I do not see this happening in Chicago, while New York, no matter what you write, was named the friendliest major city on the planet by Reader’s Digest (see my post above). To help you digest this fact, read another entry from American City: http://americancity.org/daily/entry/219/

    Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 9:23pm

    While I was never surprised at how friendly or courteous New Yorkers seem to be, I’m always impressed by the extent to which they take pride in their city. There’s a palpable energy in the City, as if in walking the sidewalks and breathing the air you’re participating in the kind of moment, in the kind of place, that will never again be replicated and so must be savored. My impression is that the citizens of New York intuit this, perhaps not to the degree as the occasional visitor, but to the extent that they would stop you in your bewilderment in the street, offer directions, places to eat, and savor the moment to explain to you their fair city. Citizenship defined, in my humble opinion. ”

    Only in New York, kid.

  193. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 12:18 pm editfranktown Says:
    December 29, 2008 at 10:48 pm

    Lost. Let’s be real here. New York IS friendly. How can I love a city but hate the people? New Yorkers are….New Yorkers.

    But Chicagoans are…. Chicagoans. Different interpretations of friendliness, different manners, different dress, etc.

    Both cities have their share of assholes, but both cities, to me, have their share of quircky, down to earth individuals.

    If you still feel there’s not one bright, down to earth soul in Chicago, well…. you always got me.


    Yes, let’s be real. There are no different interpretations of freindliness or manners. Friendliness is friendliness, manners are manners, there is good taste and lack of it, there is education and ignorance. There are no different definitions and it has nothing to do with being down to earth. (By the way, what’s up with putting Chicago and “down to earth” in once sentence? How “down to earth” is rooting for the Cubs given their hundred years old history? How down to earth is claiming “corruption is good and built Chicago’?)
    Like I said, you want to see the difference between Chicago and New York cultures? Just look at their newspapers, The New York Times and Chicago Tribune. Read both and tell me if you see a cultural difference or not ) )

  194. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 12:29 pm editdarcs said:

    “I can only say that I did not have positive NY experiences when I lived in NY. I know it was a long time ago, I know I’m much older now, I know NY’s “place in the world” and don’t have a problem with that. Fashion central, financial central, theater central, all that. Fine. But personally, you couldn’t pay me to live there”

    darcs, I realize New York is not for everyone, there is no place on a planet that is for good for everyone. We are all different. But you have to take notice that even in Florida (Ft. Lauderdale) people smile to strangers and greet them with “hello” which is unheard of in Chicago. Like I said, maybe some day you make a trip to New York and I will give yo a good tour of the city, avoiding Empire State or Statue of Liberty. Just a tour of different neighboorhoods so you could start feeling the atmosphere devoid of envy, bitterness and general fremdemhass. I am not sure if I can explain it but in York you really feel “we are in it together” and we can either make it a positive or negative experience. It is up to us, people…
    By the way, have you seen the movie “Weatherman” with Nicolas Cage?

    Lost, no, you’re right, no place is right for everyone. I didn’t go to the ESB or the SoL when I lived there. The neighborhood I lived in was nicknamed “Little Italy” and since I wasn’t Italian, and was blonde, with “a CA accent” they didn’t like me much. That being said, while they made my life miserable while I was there, I do know there are friendly people in NY. I just never encountered more than 1 or 2 at a time.

    And no, I haven’t seen that movie.

  195. franktown Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 1:17 pm editWell, okay whatevahhhhh…. They say ‘friendliest MAJOR city in the world’ in nearly every article you showed me. Chicago is not a MAJOR city in the world. It’s only a BIG city in the world. They obviously went to developed countries and chose the country’s premier city. England’s is London, France is Paris, USA is New York… they obviously didn’t survey cities like Houston or Chicago. Of course New York is friendlier than any other city in the world. The United States and Canada are like the only countries where strangers actually interact for reasons other than business.

    You think Chicago’s rude, I think New York’s rude. MMmmmmkkay?

  196. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 2:05 pm editfrank

    You can think the Cubs and Bears are the greatest teams on the planet despite all the evidence against this assumption. You can think whatever you want, haven’t really lived in ANY big city for an extended period of time, your experience is marginal. Having that experience on the other hand, I can say that compared to New York, Chicago is strikingly rude, obnoxious and unfriendly. You can’t expect people to hold doors for you or say “excuse me” but you can expect them to fly of the handle at any moment.
    You and other Chicago lovers have a terrible tendency to pass opinions as facts and use stereotypes whenever you lack first-hand experience or knowledge. Your own words:” The United States and Canada are like the only countries where strangers actually interact for reasons other than business. ” are a great example as they imply some experience but how many foreign countries and cities have you actually been to? Have you been to Paris, London, Rome, Tokyo or Amsterdam? Since you wrote the above I bet you haven’t and this is exactly what I am talking about when I mentione Chicago’s deep arrogance, ignorance and parochialism. Yes, frank, people in Europe find it much easier to interact with each other than in the US and New York is great for being an examption to this rule.

    I am quoting actual press articles and people’s comments, you are simply stating your opinions and repeating old stereotypes. Hearsay and wishful thinking versus facts. You have to learn the art of good discussion, otherwise you always will be laughed on…

  197. DarcsFalcon Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 3:34 pm editJust as an aside, I saw this on my Twitter today:

    “Say, why are New Yorkers so ill-mannered, uncouth, and miserable to be around? From a pissed off South Floridian. )

    For the record, no, I was not part of the discussion. And no, I don’t know if that person’s ever been to Chicago. ;)

  198. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 4:43 pm editDarcs

    Of course a lot of people, especially coming from small towns, get that initial impression. They do not get that faced paced way of life or are surprised people are very direct and not so much into small talk. Please read however the Reader’s Digest article I quoted above and the reasons why New York was deemed the friendliest city in the world. It explains a lot of what I am talking about as missing in Chicago.

    I don’t know if the person on Twitter was from a small town or not. I just thought it interesting that their comment popped up on Twitter at the same time this conversation was going on here.

  199. franktown Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 7:51 pm editAnd Lost’s attitude is the exact problem that many people have with New Yorkers: They’re always right no matter what, no exceptions.
  200. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 10:34 pm editfrank

    Right frank. Because of exposure to 5000 UN diplomats, countless executives from foreign corporations and 45M tourists a year New York knows more about the world than any other place in the US. After all this is where New York Times, Time and Newsweek is being published. That’s right frank.
    Now frank, why don’t you go back to my post and tell me how did you get to the conlucison that “The United States and Canada are like the only countries where strangers actually interact for reasons other than business”. Please enlighten me how did you gather this deep knowledge of the world outside of Indiana and Chicago?

  201. tomvee Says:
    December 30, 2008 at 11:08 pm edit‘The United States and Canada are like the only countries where strangers actually interact for reasons other than business. ‘

    Wow. Narrow-minded. Spoken like a true Cubs fan. ;)
    What is it that makes Cubs fans generalize so much?

  202. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 31, 2008 at 12:28 am edittomvee

    I think its a testament to Chicago view of the world,: simplitic, stereotypical, plausible, absurd. U of I must be very proud now, too.

  203. franktown Says:
    December 31, 2008 at 4:09 pm editNo more stereotypical than you, actually. Despite you having been to Chicago, you still clump Chicagoans into one group based only upon majority of the people you interacted with.

    Let me do the same. The majority of New Yorkers acted this way when I was there, so I will generalize. It’s a two way street.

  204. Lost In Chicago Says:
    December 31, 2008 at 10:53 pm editThis is New Year so I am just going to wish you and everyone visiting this board all the best. For you frank, and other Chicago lovers, just get out more. See the world in its variety. The world does not end with hot dogs, deep dish and the bean. There is more. Good luck.

    Happy New Year to you too, Lost! And to everyone who visits here! And thank you for being in it with me. )

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